ubercommando | 16 Mar 2015 3:05 p.m. PST |
Right, let's try something a little less controversial? The RULES are thus: 1. Only say positive things in support/affirmation/defence of the subject matter. 2. No backhanded compliments. The charges against (as compiled by me from many different thread posts/articles/blogs by other people) are that IGOUGO is a poor method of resolving game play as it often favours the attacker, is too predictable and doesn't give a satisfactory level of friction and fog of war. You know who has the initiative, the steps in the turn are set and thus crafty players can use the predictability to their advantage which goes against real warfare situations. So, over to you…. |
tberry7403 | 16 Mar 2015 7:39 p.m. PST |
"… a little less controversial?" Seriously??? IGOUGO is good for… Chess Checkers Kids board games When used for "wargames" its utility depends on the supporting rules, such as, Overwatch, Reaction, etc. |
ubercommando | 17 Mar 2015 5:19 a.m. PST |
What part of "only say positive things in support…" didn't you get? |
OSchmidt | 17 Mar 2015 5:29 a.m. PST |
Dear Ubercommando A good question but all too easily answered. Unfortunately ALL games are IGOUGO once you clear out all the clap-trap and clutter of dice,cards,or tea-leaves. This is in movement. Unless you are going to have movement orders interpreted by third party umpires, it will always be IGOUGO. SOMEONE has to move first. Besides nothing wrong with IGOUGO most games in the history of war games have been IGOUGO and everyone has had a wonderfully fun time with it. |
Weasel | 17 Mar 2015 8:19 a.m. PST |
It's easy to explain and it matches how conventional board games work, thus making it quicker to get started. Someone once opined to me that it was easier to make multi unit manoeuvres if you could move them all at the same time. For games with a small number of figures on each side, it's often faster than alternating back and forth for each figure. |
etotheipi | 17 Mar 2015 9:12 a.m. PST |
Unfortunately ALL games are IGOUGO once you clear out all the clap-trap and clutter of dice,cards,or tea-leaves. This is in movement. Unless you are going to have movement orders interpreted by third party umpires, it will always be IGOUGO. SOMEONE has to move first. No, this isn't. It is a card driven order mechanic executed on a hex grid with simultaneous movement. Everybody moves at the same time. There is no element of "I can change (decide/reinterpret) what I am doing now that I have seen what you are doing". What other people have already committed to before orders are adjudicated will affect how your order turns out, but that is different. |
OSchmidt | 17 Mar 2015 9:33 a.m. PST |
Dear Etotheipi What is? Name the game? Sorry I don't believe it. As I said unless you have uninterested third parties executing the orders, or the orders cannot be interpreted in a different way, it is always open to prevarication, and even if your miniatures only move one hex at a time. If two have orders moving into the same hex at the same time it degenerates into IGOUGO. |
Rudysnelson | 17 Mar 2015 9:39 a.m. PST |
From a historical perspective, the IGOUGO system works for a a mechanic if the time frame for each turn represents an extended period of time. Most designers suggest one day at least. These reflect the response aspect of command decision making. So I have no problem with the IGOUGO system for those levels of play. For very short game turns, Other systems reflect the command aspect better. |
etotheipi | 17 Mar 2015 2:41 p.m. PST |
What is? Name the game? Gladiator Wrecks, linked in my original post, now named. the orders cannot be interpreted in a different way … which is pretty much what … There is no element of "I can change (decide/reinterpret) what I am doing now that I have seen what you are doing means. The cars move multiple hexes based on their momentum. If two have orders moving into the same hex at the same time it degenerates into IGOUGO. No, it results in a collision, which is an integral part of the game. Wings of War/Glory does a similar thing in free space. Orders are not changable once laid down and unambiguous. Also, written order systems are not IGO-UGO. If you expect the people you play with to lie, the problem is not in the rules. |
Henry Martini | 17 Mar 2015 3:18 p.m. PST |
It's still the best option for multi-player games; other turn sequences that involve one player acting at a time result in a very slow game that leaves most players idle most of the time. |
OSchmidt | 18 Mar 2015 5:11 a.m. PST |
Dear Etotheipi Not a real game like we think of, that is an army miniatures game. |
etotheipi | 18 Mar 2015 9:25 a.m. PST |
So, basically, you're saying everything devolves to IGO-UGO, except for the things that don't count because you don't play them. And still, with written orders in "army miniatures games", the fact that you expect the people you play with to lie doesn't mean the system is IGO-UGO. There are tons of other ways to resolve conflict in simultaneous movement other than IGO-UGO. |