"US Army Mechanized Infantry 1980s TO&E" Topic

Hey guys, can I get a TO&E for US Mech infantry platoons mid-late 80s? Thanks.

Enola. Enola's World's Major Armies 1981: Organization & Equipment of Modern Combat Units. Enola Games, 1981. 77p. Organizational charts. US, Sov, NATO & Warsaw pact countries plus Switzerland, Sweden & Austria, Finland, China, Japan, South Africa, Israel, Egypt, Syria, India, Pakistan. Large Wraps. Near Fine Copy $15 USD

link

This book is very good at least for the late 1970's and early 1980's. It is highly detailed and has lots of countries.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

Too early. Looking for mid-late 80s.

Do you need just vehicle info, or the number of troops as well?

IIRC, they were reorganized under the 1986 TO&E.

Possibly Field Manual 7-7 if you can find it legally online.

What I had in 1985-86 in the 2nd ID in Korea was:

Command Track (M113A1):
Platoon Leader, M16
Radioman, M16
Driver
Track Commander manning the .50 cal
(attached) Artillery Forward Observer, M16
(attached) FO's Radioman, M16
(sometimes) Medic, M1911 pistol

3x Squads, each with M113A1 and:
Squad Leader (E6), M16
Track Commander
Driver
Machine-Gunner w/M60
Assistant MG Gunner, M16
2xGrenadiers, M203
1-4 Riflemen, M16 (we weren't always up to full strength)

plus the Platoon Sergeant (E7), M16

In addition to the above weapons, two of the squads also had M47 Dragon AT missile launchers.

On the march, our typical deployment was one squad leading, my command track following, and the other two squads following that, with the platoon sergeant in the trail track.

If we were in a prepared defense, we could dismount the .50s from the tracks as we had tripods for them. So we would have had four .50s, three M60s, two M47, and six M203 accounted for in my fire plan.

scribd.com/doc/96348288/Nato-Order-of-Battle-Mod-8

Squad:
Mech Infantry: 9 Infantry – 1 M2 or M113 IFV, 3 crew, 6 dismounts, 5 M16, 2 M203, 2 M249, 1 M47
Weapons Squad: 7 Infantry – 2 M60 MG, 5 M16

Platoon:

HQ Section: 1 M2 or M113, Platoon leader, Platoon Sergeant, and driver
3 Mech Infantry Squads
1 Weapons Squad (carried by HQ M2/M113)

@ Eumelus

A question for you- how did your squads form fire teams? Your squads could have 9 dismounts which sounds like a light infantry squad, but I don't get how the M60 team fit in. I almost sounds like:
Squad leader (alone)
M60 team (2 guys)
Fireteam A (3 guys with 1 M203)
Fireteam B (like A)

Or did the M60 team form up as part of a Fireteam? If so, what did y'all do with the grenadiers?

Thanks!

Quaker: Interesting. I can tell you that I never had four E6s, so there was never a question about fielding a separate weapon squad. Being just a newbie LT I can't say for certain that my OB was ubiquitous in the battalion, but I know in my company that the other platoons were organized the same way.

Also, I never saw a M249 until 1988, long after I'd left the 2nd ID.

TGunner: Forming fire teams was an informal process for several reasons. First, my platoon sergeant and I decided that we'd put E4s or E5s as track commanders, because we
wanted good judgement and experience in the cupola (please don't drive into the ginseng field, that'll cost Uncle Sam thousands of bucks) and because the track commander was regularly in a leadership role supervising and inspecting track maintenance. Secondly, there was a constant flux of personnel in 2nd ID as most troops were on one-year tours, so no sooner would you get a squad organized in a particular way then somebody would be DEROSing and you'd have to begin again. Thirdly, every squad would have one or two KATUSAs – Korean soldiers living with and serving right alongside US troops. These men were great and enthusiastic soldiers but their command of English was often more academic than colloquial.

I basically, therefore, left fire team organization to the squad leaders. What they did, as for example in squad evaluations, was to form a "heavy team" with the M60, one of the M203s, and half the riflemen, and a "light" team with everybody else which frankly sometimes meant just a two-man team. Since we had no "squad automatic rifle" apart from the M16 , we basically ignored that part of the OB figuring that the M60 filled the role. Incidentally I remember quite well that we had 3 M60s in the platoon.

During TEAM SPIRIT and therefore presumably if the balloon had gone up, my company was the battalion lead company and therefore was organized as a combat team: We gained a platoon of M60A3 tanks (but traded the armor battalion one of our platoons), a two-vehicle AT section with the M901 "hammerhead" TOW launcher, a Fire Support spotting vehicle which looked externally identical to the M901 and like it had the superb TOW thermal sight, and the usual company commander track and company softskins. A recovery vehicle from battalion and ambulance M113 might also accompany.

I haven't thought about this stuff in years.

Here's a useful chapter from FM 7-7:

link

Golden stuff Eumelus, thanks! I only served with Bradley mechs, but I'm forming a Team Yankee style force which was before, but only just (!), my time.

Eumelus, what battalion in 2ID? I was in 1st Tank 84-86. A year on Bn staff and a year commanding B Co.

I was also in 1st brigade, in 1-17 Inf (M) which redesignated to 5-20 Inf (M) about halfway through my tour. I daresay we both remember the 1st Brigade Officer's club!

Great thread!

Yes, Eumelus posts are as I remember. I was a Mech Co. Cdr, 18 months, '87-'89, with the 197th Mech Bde(Sep) at Benning. I too was in the ROK, 22 months '84-'85, Bn S4 1-31(M), 3d Bde, Cp Howze. So looks like some of us were there at the same time. As Cold Steel and I had discovered before. The only real difference with my Squads with 1-58(M), 197th Bde. Was each Squad had 2 Fire Tms of 5 men each. Each Tm had 1 M249 SAW, 1 M203 GL, and 2 M16s. And one Squad had an M60 MG. The other the M47 Dragon MAW. So making two 5 man Fire Tms + 1 Squad Ldr = 11 men total. Of course each Squad had an M113 w/M2 50.cal … And as he noted, that came down to 9 dismounts, as the Track Driver and TC stayed with the track … Which reduced the dimounts' weapons by two M16s … Plus each Mech Co. had an organic AT Section of two M901 ITVs. Which were attached to D. Co., the Bn AT Co. for training, etc. … But when in the field that AT Sec. was re-attached.

Great info, thanks guys. Before the 249 was adopted what if anything was used as squad automatic weapon? Did that concept originate in the US Army with the 249?

By the way, just read Team Yankee and it's derailed my mini making plans! :-)

I think it's set around 85-86 so that might be before the 249 was adopted.

Also doesn't the M2 carry one fewer dismount than the 113? If so how does that effect squad composition?

Hey khurasanminiatures, I use Wargame Vault, they have TO&E for American Armor, Mech and Inf divisions for 78 to 90. You can check em out.

Before the 249 was adopted what if anything was used as squad automatic weapon? Did that concept originate in the US Army with the 249?

Kind of funny … but no … When I was a PL in the 101 '80-'81, the SAW was a designated M16 with "clothes pin" bipod …

Also doesn't the M2 carry one fewer dismount than the 113? If so how does that effect squad composition?

I'll let one of the M2 guys go into detail. Because we never had M2s when I was with the 197th. But IIRC, the Squad was reduced to 9 total. With the Driver, Gunner and TC staying with the Track. And the Dismounts being only 6. Which I remember we talked about this, as we figured eventually we may get M2s. We thought 6 dismounts was too small an element. But I'm sure those who were M2 "Track Riders" could give you better insights.

@Eumelus

I thought that document was correct on the squad level org as I had cross checked it and found it was correct for high level orgs. It isn't correct, I cross checked again with some Ospreys (which agree that it was 3 squad platoons, but disagree on whether Div 86 was H or J series TOE …) and bought a MicroMark list. The TOE around Vietnam included a weapons squad so it didn't strike me as wrong.

@JammerMan

The 78-90 list would be for the older TOE. By the late '80s most of the European units should have been transitioned to Div 86 TOE.