Editor in Chief Bill | 12 Mar 2015 7:17 p.m. PST |
May people feel that our hobby is ultimately doomed, because young people are not coming into the hobby in sufficient numbers. Therefore, in what year do you think the hobby will die? |
saltflats1929 | 12 Mar 2015 7:20 p.m. PST |
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Coelacanth | 12 Mar 2015 7:24 p.m. PST |
If we win, will there be a prize? Ron |
PiersBrand | 12 Mar 2015 7:31 p.m. PST |
Anytime in the last 30 years as thats how long people have been telling me its a dying hobby. Im beginning to suspect they may be talking out of their bottoms and not really have a grasp on how the hobby draws people in. |
Repiqueone | 12 Mar 2015 7:50 p.m. PST |
One could say its been dead for years and is now a zombie hobby. Analsim is now playing the part of Charlton Heston in Omega Man on the "What is Historical Wargaming These Days?" thread, and we are about to find that all plastic military miniatures are Soylent Green, and that is made from old, overweight, balding men! |
Rebelyell2006 | 12 Mar 2015 7:58 p.m. PST |
If it's dead, then why are there so many new plastic kits coming out? |
Night Owl III | 12 Mar 2015 8:23 p.m. PST |
Depends on what the definition of the "hobby" is. I don't have the stats to back it but I thought the industry as a whole was growing at a staggering rate. Didn't ICv2 just announce that last year the industry grew 25%? I think the hobby is always changing, even evolving although some may argue that, but I don't think it's going anywhere and certainly not ultimately doomed. |
f u u f n f | 12 Mar 2015 8:24 p.m. PST |
If I continue to play until I die (or lose interest) and can continue to find opponents or solo rules depending on my mood, then what does it matter if the hobby "dies"? It's the same argument about a particular rule set or edition dying. If your playing it and enjoying it then wahoo with the rest of the world. Right? As far as needing minis for a game if the hobby died, there have always been endless alternatives to actual minis. |
79thPA | 12 Mar 2015 8:29 p.m. PST |
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mandt2 | 12 Mar 2015 8:32 p.m. PST |
Bout twenty years ago, when computer games started to pick up steam many predicted the end of boardgames, at least simulation type boardgames. And it looked like that was going to be the case. A couple of game stores near me started stocking PC games too for a while. Then, boardgames came roaring back. Boys have been painting and playing with toy soldiers for as long as there have been boys. So I wouldn't count it out just yet. |
Rrobbyrobot | 12 Mar 2015 8:41 p.m. PST |
When Marvin the Martian gets to hear the Earth shattering kaboom… |
Privateer4hire | 12 Mar 2015 8:41 p.m. PST |
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clifblkskull | 12 Mar 2015 8:44 p.m. PST |
Not soon! We are in a great era of more figures, more rules cool terrain ideas I just came from Cold Wars It was not all oldies! Boys,teens,girls and women etc. It is just the malaise tha t hits some times. And people say the sky is falling. Clif |
Perris0707 | 12 Mar 2015 8:52 p.m. PST |
Hey. I may be overweight, but I am NOT balding!!! |
Coelacanth1938 | 12 Mar 2015 9:08 p.m. PST |
Just wait until 3D printers come down in price. The kids will be making their own. |
sneakgun | 12 Mar 2015 9:16 p.m. PST |
The signs of the Apocalypse have been showing lately, droughts, tons of snow, missing aircraft….. |
Rebelyell2006 | 12 Mar 2015 9:23 p.m. PST |
Oh please, aircraft have been missing for millennia, until the Wright Brothers finally found one. |
Great War Ace | 12 Mar 2015 9:38 p.m. PST |
It dies when I die. "The Hobby" will wax and wane according to current trends. It will never die out entirely or fade to absolute obscurity…. |
McWong73 | 12 Mar 2015 9:41 p.m. PST |
I've felt that too many folks only look at the routes they took to get to the hobby as being the sole way in. Yeah, no kids these days get into the hobby by discovering a Featherstone book in the library, but at the most recent Cancon here downunder I was genuinely impressed by the number of people under twenty attending just for the boardgames. Saw plenty of kids discovering wargames for the first time there, which gave me a lot of confidence that we'll be seeing little soldiers being pushed around and dice being rolled for years to come. Consider the huge numbers that attend Pax conventions as well. |
Toronto48 | 12 Mar 2015 10:00 p.m. PST |
In the seventh and final season of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Dr Bashir and Chief O'Brien were engaged in a miniature game refighting the battle of the Alamo. I am not exactly sure of the actual Star date but it would be around our year 2369
That's would be a good date to aim for I suspect that the numbers of gamers may become smaller but there should always be enough "…boys from twelve years of age to one hundred and fifty and for that more intelligent sort of girl who likes boys' games and books" to keep the hobby going |
John the OFM | 12 Mar 2015 10:09 p.m. PST |
Otto sez they have been predicting this since 1967. Assuming history is a palindrome, and the high point is today… I predict they will still be saying it in 2057. And some Old Farts will be waxing nostalgic about how they paid $25 USD for single line infantry figures in their youth, and that no one can afford 48 figure battalions any more. And my current figures will have disintegrated. Not from lead rot, but nuclear decay. |
Winston Smith | 12 Mar 2015 10:27 p.m. PST |
Define "Die ". Will it be when the last historical gamer has a stroke watching a movie on Stalingrad and cries out that they are using grav-sleds to represent T34s? Ok. 2113. |
Black Scorpion | 13 Mar 2015 2:35 a.m. PST |
Who's saying this? To my eyes it's doing better than ever, there's been a huge boom in the industry over the last 10 years with many new young gamers. Whilst salute still has to hire a separate hall just to handle the queue I don't think there's any reason to worry. Maybe there's a divide in what's happening in USA to Europe? |
Mako11 | 13 Mar 2015 2:37 a.m. PST |
The same time we go extinct from: 1. a supernova; 2. gamma ray burst; 3. giant asteroid hitting the planet, or ripping the atmosphere away from a near miss through it; 4. alien attack; 5. banned by the PC police for being the root of all evil (even then, we'll play out hypothetical scenarios from our dingy little cells). |
Henry Martini | 13 Mar 2015 2:42 a.m. PST |
Old hobbies don't die, they just… |
bsrlee | 13 Mar 2015 2:47 a.m. PST |
I tend to go for Mako11's #5 – when the anti-wartoy lobby get enough clout to ban everything. |
CATenWolde | 13 Mar 2015 2:50 a.m. PST |
Well, I think I'm actually the oldest in our group (of about a dozen or so), and I'm only in my 40's. We've had a couple teenagers and early-twenties join just over the past year, as well as several 30-somethings either starting fresh or re-starting with historicals after playing GW in their youth. It all looks fresh and strong from here! |
Mute Bystander | 13 Mar 2015 3:13 a.m. PST |
Okay, just look my answers from the last 100 times this has been discussed. |
ubercommando | 13 Mar 2015 3:47 a.m. PST |
There are still plenty of young people interested in wargaming….they just don't want to hang out with the older crowd, that's all. If you can't see them, that's because they've got their own club. |
Schogun | 13 Mar 2015 4:40 a.m. PST |
There were lots of kids at Cold Wars last weekend. Maybe miniatures will take a hit when holograms finally arrive. Any period. Any scale. No painting. |
Yesthatphil | 13 Mar 2015 4:52 a.m. PST |
I seldom refer to my interests as a hobby and never as _the hobby … _My hobby (if you want to call it that) is military history, toy soldier collecting and wargaming (in its traditional sense). They have fascinated people almost since the dawn of time (even the Pharaohs had toy soldiers) … maybe only the toy soldier wargame has a shorter history (though we can certainly put at least 2 centuries under its belt). So I can't see it disappearing any time soon. Indeed judging by the sheer volume of books and TV programmes (way up on days past) my interests are attracting an ever increasing audience. I also see little behind the 'greying' stuff (other than, post baby boom the whole population is greying … and in that sense my interests and my friends are growing grey with me) … Other people's hobbies? That might include a lot of what people on this forum call the hobby (but is actually their hobby of course) … Well there are bits of it which I think might not have lasting appeal – but I am constantly surprised. If your hobby is a commercial thing – you just buy in games and toys and play with them in the prescribed way … Well I'd assume as soon as the market becomes unprofitable the supply will dry up. Even so, there seems to be so much out there that I'm sure eBay will keep you supplied for years to come. So … Not in my lifetime Phil Ancients on the Move |
OSchmidt | 13 Mar 2015 4:57 a.m. PST |
Dear Piers Brand. I agree. I got into the hobby over 50 years ago and people were telling me it was a dying hobby back then. For about 20 years I now simply equate all this "The Hobby is Dying" talk with slobbering self pity and sloth. It all comes down to poor-poor pitiful me!? Oh woe is me, I don't have dealers, conventions, other gamers and clubs falling down all over themselves to give me a good time. Frankly I've never seen a lazier bunch of people that some gamers who have a sense of entitlement to be entertained by everyone and THAT is why they say the hobby Is dying. It's simple. They will become the center of attention by saying this as well as other extremely cynical and pessimistic statements and then everyone flutters around trying to resussitate their happiness. If you're concerned about the hobby dying then get off your ass, start a club, put on a game at a convention, tell others about the hobby, and show your stuff off in your house etc. Go to put on games wherever you can, and at the very least support and be nice to other gamers. In my life I've recruited dozens to the hobby. Lately I've given up on individuals. I've moved on to whole families. 1. Met a woman on the net on a Christian sight and we both left it but kept up correspondence. We kept up the friendship talking about religion and politics. Eventually she asked me what I liked to do besides talk about Religion and Politics and I told her about warg ames. She was going on vacation with her family a few months later and she asked if she could stop by and visit, and-- perhaps play a game. I took a day off going to HCon and met with her and played the game. She had her 9 year old son, her husband, and her 15 year old daughter with her. They all became avidly interested in the hobby and love it. She went to Historicons and now Hurricon in Florida. All are wargamers. 2.I had an employee at work who is a Civil War Re-enactor. He and I became friends and I go to some of his events, and I invited him to a wargame. He, his wife, his daughter, and her fiancé came. They loved it. Now he games, she looks for bargains for him in Flea markets, and the kids are now gamers too. 3. I have another friend at work who'se husband and son are interested in the civil War. The invitations have gone out. 4. The other day my next door neighbor borrowed my snow broom to pull the snow off his roof. He saw the cases of miniatures and toys. He brought his daughter over to see (19 year old) She loved it. Wants to play the next game I have. Him too. The Hobby will die when gamers stop prozeltyzing it. War games are fun, a great hobby, and you can have wonder fun with it, so long as you don't get hooked up with the people who are crying in their beer and being cynical and despairing which is all just an act. If the hobby is dying why aren't they getting out of it. If you really think it's dying-- send me your stuff-- I'll find a good home for it. All these things are simply cynical and slothful reasons for doing nothing. |
redbanner4145 | 13 Mar 2015 5:13 a.m. PST |
It will die when we have technology that lets us play our battles with holograms of figures & terrain. It won't really be dead only virtual. |
Col Durnford | 13 Mar 2015 5:28 a.m. PST |
In the grim darkness of the far future there is only wargmes. Or something like that. |
vtsaogames | 13 Mar 2015 5:46 a.m. PST |
Back in the late 70's I started work as a mainframe programmer. Computer management magazines predicted the demise of mainframes within 5 years. That way they wouldn't have to deal with us arrogant programmers. They kept predicting this year in, year out. There are more mainframes operating now than back in those days. You can't tell because there are PCs and smart devices everywhere. So management gets to deal with those ever so humble PC coders. I'm grey as can be and so is my crew. I suspect after we all shuffle off this mortal coil there will be others who step forward. |
ubercommando | 13 Mar 2015 6:40 a.m. PST |
It goes like this: Toy soldiers – Zulu and Kelly's Heroes on TV – teens playing bling games – students pretending to like alternative games but playing bling games – job, marriage, young children hiatus – return to the hobby somewhere in the mid-late 30s, shock at all the new games – hair goes grey but not past it yet – old fogey, hobby is doomed. |
It is good to be King | 13 Mar 2015 7:03 a.m. PST |
1999, the Party is over, for those of you that have not had your second cup of coffee yet, it's a song reference.. |
nazrat | 13 Mar 2015 7:08 a.m. PST |
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Axebreaker | 13 Mar 2015 7:38 a.m. PST |
What Mako11 said. Christopher |
Bill McHarg | 13 Mar 2015 9:04 a.m. PST |
In 1981 Bob Jones watched some friends play Empire III at my house. He told us miniatures were dead, that computer games had taken over. In the years since Bob has published a whole bunch of different rule sets for the "dying hobby". :) One of the things that I thought might kill it is the cost of miniatures now. Despite that, people seem to collect large numbers of figures and keep on gaming. Playing with toy soldiers is fun. When 3D printers become cheap and people can make their own, it may become even more popular. |
ACWBill | 13 Mar 2015 9:32 a.m. PST |
The Hobby is Dead. Long Live the Hobby! |
Weasel | 13 Mar 2015 9:40 a.m. PST |
I mean, the earth only has what? 5 billion years left before we're enveloped by the sun. |
Mako11 | 13 Mar 2015 10:12 a.m. PST |
Or 5 hours. If they can't get tomorrow's local weather forecast right, how can they predict what the sun will do? |
Gunfreak | 13 Mar 2015 11:38 a.m. PST |
The day I die, I have placed a molecular death enzyme in all the world's lead and plastic, when my heart stops, the enzyme wil activate, turning all lead abd plastic miniature into a formless soup. |
Who asked this joker | 13 Mar 2015 11:43 a.m. PST |
I think the hobby is not going to die. The hobby landscape is changing. Historical games with a sprinkling of sci-fi and fantasy was the norm 20 years ago. Now it is mostly sci-fi and fantasy with a sprinkling of historicals out there. It will shift again…perhaps to something even more mundane. It is arguably easier to produce a fantasy game based on your own imagination than it is to produce a historical game based on historical sources simply because you have the added extra step of research. With today's generation (the so-called millennials) you get the easy street attitude that I personally did not have growing up. I work with several and they sometimes drive me nuts! |
Repiqueone | 13 Mar 2015 12:01 p.m. PST |
Bill McHarg, There are now a million times more computer war-games being used than copies of Empire that were ever published. They have taken over! You and I are just among the happy few that refuse to give up our toys, and like the experience of miniature war-games. Even among miniature gamers, historical gamers are a distinctly smaller faction. Younger gamers are predominately fantasy or Sci-fi. Most of the older historical miniature warmers are still doing it because they can't figure out how to turn on their computer! Look forward to seeing you back in Denver, when I'll reveal my latest predictions! :-) |
(Phil Dutre) | 13 Mar 2015 3:11 p.m. PST |
The hobby will die on April 23, 2027, precisely at 4.23 in the afternoon. |
Left Bank | 13 Mar 2015 6:16 p.m. PST |
Your better positioned to answer this question Bill |
skippy0001 | 13 Mar 2015 7:58 p.m. PST |
Gaming will never die. It is a form of social contact. |
Syrinx0 | 13 Mar 2015 8:40 p.m. PST |
If I could print my figures in perfectly shaded color I would definitely stop painting the rank and file but I would still paint some for fun and game. Gaming is definitely a social event. |