"best Warhammer Fantasy magic system of all editions?" Topic

Not Warhammer, but I always preferred the way magic worked in the old Metagaming Melee/Wizard microgames. Plus, it's easily portable to other systems.

I don't know about 'best' because the different systems aimed to do different things within the game – but the 3rd edition is the 'cleanest' basic system. There's a lot of detail and extra stuff – typical of the 3rd edition generally – but it is the cleanest in that:

It stands aside as a system and doesn't attempt to integrate within the mechanics as some of the later systems do.

It is less random because the magic available is based on points that are expended throughout the game – 10pts for level 1, 20pts for level 2 and so on. Spells are cast automatically unless your reserve drops below 12 (when a 2D6 test V intelligence is required). So it is predictable.

There is a basic magic save – 2D6 against the unit's Will Power – which is a clean mechanic that translates over into other systems averaging on a value of 7.

The card based system (92 and 96 versions – or 4th and 5th) are a rather complex sub-game in themselves. Very entertaining but if you are looking for a bolt on system it is a bit OTT. Good for a magic dueling game!

The later random magic generation system is a very good system – and probably better implemented than earlier versions – but less clean because of the random generation. Many people consider it to be the 'best'.

I'm not familiar with the current version:)

When using Hail Caesar for fantasy – which I do – we have used something like the Warmaster magic system – where the casts are made on a D6 roll – Hail Caesar is derived from Warmaster to some extent so the magic transfers over without to much fuss. It is a fairly 'bland' system though – as the emphasis of the game lies elsewhere. That really is the key – just how much do you want the game to be about the magic.

Hope that's of some use to you.

Third is a little more predictable and the battle isn't dependant on the magic phase, unless you play undead. It can easily be limited to reflect the amount of spell-casting you want in your games. Fourth is fun but overpowered, as Rick mentioned. Total Power! ;) I think the current system is okay, but is also a sub- game. I don't know how it could be customized without messing up the game itself. I think some armies are dependent on the magic phase. It's been a while since I played 8th so I may not remember the system very well.

I liked the system in Warmaster as well. It was easy, fast and simple. No complex bull . Just roll a die and apply the results. At smaller scale it could use a dispel system more than just scrolls.

We use it for fantasy battle too.

I stopped playing after 4th edition, but regarding 3rd edition I'm surprised about Mr Priestley's comments given that I do appreciate his rules writing capabilities. ( Almost as much as Jervis Johnson's , I love epic :) )

I loved third edition WH but we always had issues with magic..

The standard magic system in 3rd edition, while a good system in the mechanics had the problem for us that it seemed unplayable due to the spells. I used to play undead and nobody wanted to use level 4 magic because we had such spells like the one giving a S3 auto hit to every model on the table !!!

At some point the rumor got to us back in Argentina that in the tournaments they were only using up to level 2 battle magic. Assuming this was true, and not an evil jocke by brits to us argies :) the problem with that is that battle magic level 2 gave a ton of tools to destroy undead troops while giving no recourse to them.. so then undead became unplayable..

The final maybe not directly related thing was the magic attributes of weapons, the combination could be impossible, frostblade with some of the ones giving many attacks meant unit killers..

Because of this while we kept playing 3rd edition when 4th came out we started using 4th edition magic system..

I wonder how other people saw third edition magic, and wonder if Rick Priestly saw some of this issues or they were addressed by the gaming community in a particular way..

Quite and interesting topic by the way , even if I haven't played WH for such a long time.. I still have my 3rd edition book, army list and siege on the book shelf.. my favorites books ever…

PS: is there ever going to be a Hail Cesar fantasy :) that would be nice …

cheers
Francisco

3rd edition was best. However, it broke down within the Realms Of Chaos warbands games (well, yes, let me summon a greater daemon in a game with only 14 models on the table!)

We are currently running a 5th edition campaign.
The magic system is chaotic, but fun.

We don't use named characters or high level magic users.

Francisco – yes you are quite right to say the that the balance and effect of certain spells and magic items in 3rd were not very playable! 3rd was still based on the assumption players would have a GM and self-balance to some extent… happy days indeed. The design team became all too aware of that shortcoming, and it was one of the reasons we made a fresh start with 4th (92). It was the actual basic 'mechanic of magic' I was recommending – and which of the many versions would work best as a bolt-on for other systems. Personally, I enjoyed the 92/96 card system but that too had its problems – not least in that it was impossible to update because of the cards… doh!

A fantasy version of Hail Caesar is certainly on the cards – and although I'd love to do that myself one of our Warlord authors has already made a start on a 'conversion' that we hope to have available via a website to start with.

Really? An official fantasy version of HC? Can't wait!

Rick,
thank you for your answer.

very interesting..

cheers
Francisco

Isn't the fantasy version of HC called Kings of War?
only half-joking :)