SBSchifani | 06 Mar 2015 8:14 a.m. PST |
If you were considering depicting a 28mm tabletop Welsh army suitable for Owen Glyndwr's rebellion (1380's-1415), is there anything you would do to distinguish them from their English counterparts? Or earlier, for mercenary units. You know, using wargamer rationalization, so it has some distinct differences even though such things probably didn't exist? Figure selection in 28mm? Round shields? Just brainstorming here. |
Great War Ace | 06 Mar 2015 8:40 a.m. PST |
Lots of dragon banners. :) Otherwise, common soldiers were quite rustic looking all around. Wales was a backwater but court life would have looked the same, i.e. nobility would have dressed and armed like everyone else. The Welsh "knife men" that served in Ed III's army at Crecy were, from the description I've read (was it in Seward's book? can't remember), very light and rough looking troops, but also very deadly among the French cavalry once they were stalled out. Shields would be heaters and rounds, and actually rare enough. Shields were out of vogue by then. Unless we are assuming a rustic carryover like in Scotland? Don't know. A war gaming army would look more "Welsh" to my prejudiced eye if it had lots of barefooted spearmen and archers, with rough haircuts and cloaks all around. Commanded by mailed chieftains. Led by a small core of nobles on horseback or dismounted, in full gear…. |
Maddaz111 | 06 Mar 2015 9:25 a.m. PST |
I would have lots of cloaked figures for the bulk spear and bow infantry.. not as much mail or leather jacks. I would even suggest using figures similar to the French ribaulds from foundry to bulk out units of (poorer) foot bows and spear. I would also have one unit that is done up like the English knights, but have sergeants with them that are throw backs to a century earlier.. to represent a veneer of aristocracy over a more pitiful state. (mind you.. my welsh army looks terrible but every bow is rated as better or brilliant shot, and every figure has a long bow, and half carry spear (as well) and they all have stakes … and we ambush from edge of woods .. and we have stealthy movers and we stick it to the English every time) |
Bangorstu | 06 Mar 2015 10:35 a.m. PST |
A Welsh HYW veteran looked pretty much like an English one – though earlier on the Welsh were noted for having moustaches. Outside of the veterans – well ragged-arsed infantry for the most part in muted colours. As for heraldry – red and gold with lions for the House of Aberffraw. Knights – depends. Those who had campaigned would have up to date kit, but those who hadn't.. well ,as noted it wasn't a rich region. Note no 'chieftans', the area had been thoroughly feudalised by then. |
Great War Ace | 06 Mar 2015 11:18 a.m. PST |
I know, but it's more "legendary" to have chieftains. After all, Ivanhoe was the son of a Saxon chieftain well over a century after the horrible Normans subjugated the land, etc…. |
Oh Bugger | 06 Mar 2015 3:23 p.m. PST |
chieftans is a misnomer the Welsh aristocracy were lords tigerna and had been since the times before Wales existed. The most optimistic date for the suppression of Welsh law would be around 1510. It was the strictures of Welsh law that produced the army. Even the Marchers had troops raised under its provisions. |
Wardlaw | 06 Mar 2015 3:41 p.m. PST |
Very little difference for the most part (and certianly for the nobles and gentry follwoing Owain). Perhaps more spears than bills. Otherwise, they'd look much the same. |
Last Hussar | 06 Mar 2015 6:51 p.m. PST |
As we used to say in my Anglo-Viking re-enactment society: you can tell a Welsh prince – he's the one with a shoe |
Druzhina | 06 Mar 2015 11:24 p.m. PST |
Illustrations from a 14th century manuscript of a Welsh text of the Laws of Hywel Dda, National Library of Wales MS 20143A show mi-parti costume with hanging sleeves. A Flemish observer wrote of Welsh soldiers, in around 1300: Edward, King of England, came to Flanders. He brought with him many soldiers from the land of Wales. In the very depth of winter they were running about bare-legged. They wore a red robe. They could not have been warm. The money they received from the King was spent in milk and butter. They would eat and drink anywhere. I never saw them wearing armour. I studied them very closely, and walked among them to find out what defensive armour they carried when going into battle. Their weapons were bows, arrows and swords. They also had javelins. (Lodowyk van Velthem, Spiegel Historiaal, Book IV, c. 5 (ed. Le Long, 1725). from linkDruzhina 14th Century Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers |
Oh Bugger | 07 Mar 2015 3:15 a.m. PST |
Yeah my Welsh infantry have a lot of lads in 'red robes' the armoured boys just look like everyone else in armour. |
SBSchifani | 07 Mar 2015 11:08 a.m. PST |
Thanks sincerely for the thoughts, it looks like Claymore Castings will be very helpful. Druzhina, excellent to see where Heath got his inspiration. |
Doug MSC | 07 Mar 2015 6:21 p.m. PST |
We have put out Welsh figures for our 40mm Vanguard Men-at-Arms Range. I consulted many before we made the range of Welsh. You could take a look of what we came up with to give you an Idea of what you may be looking for in the scale you prefer. miniatureservicecenter.com |