"Introducing a new recruit to toy soldiers, Chain of Command?" Topic

Good morning all!

I'm looking to introduce a new player to toy soldiers and tabletop wargaming. My good lady is fascinated by history and my affection for wargames; when a woman borrows your Great War documentary boxes set and asks to play games with you I think she's a keeper! She's never played them before, so she has no preconceptions, and because she's always asking me about the historical side I think she'll appreciate the design of something like Chain of Command by Too Fat Lardies.

I've wanted to pick up a copy of CoC since it's release, and the small scale and realistic force composition really appeals to me. For a first time wargamer, how do you think the mechanics of CoC will be to learn? Would it be appropriate as both an entry into the hobby and a tutorial in small unit tactics?

I imagine it would be a fairly easy project to put together, currently I'm thinking about playing on a 4x4 surface with 15mm figures. I see that Peter Pig package their figures in 'platoon packs', price-wise to these packs compare favourably with PSC plastic boxed sets? With PSC I fear of end up with far more figures than I'd need!

Thank you for any suggestions and guidance :)

Do whatever you already have made and use rules you already know well. Strike while the iron is hot! This may pass and keeping her waiting for a new project to be ready may be counter productive.

I'd say CoC is a very good tutorial to the hobby. It rewards realistic tactics, uses historical platoon compositions and the amount of stuff you need to paint is quite manageable.

Rules themselves are not hard to understand, at least in our group both first timers and experienced gamers have picked up all the core concepts during first game. It of course will help a lot, if at least someone knows there rules. Check out the TFL youtube-channel and blog, they are quite helpful in the beginning.

Patrol scenario with regular forces and no tanks is probably the easiest way to start. Not too many moving parts, so you can really concentrate on the core. (And playing the patrol phase few times before the rest of the game starts might help, visualizing the end result is sometimes hard in the beginning.)

Get CoC, because it is a good set of rules, but I am not sure I will recommend it as an intro game for newbies.

If you do use it, maybe skip the Patrol Phase for the first game and just place the Jump-Off Points. Skip the tanks and artillery too – just infantry vs. infantry with nothing heavier than an LMG.

First Rule of this club…. they are not "TOY" soldiers! ;-)

Miniatures…. please show some respect. 8-)

@ Winston Smith: unfortunately I lost most of my current collection moving house a year ago and haven't had time or money to replace them. I'm currently working on a 10mm Marlburian collection for Black Powder but that's a way off yet and the scale of it might be a bit daunting. Even though the number of 'elements' shouldn't be too different, I think she'll handle the duties of a WW2 platoon officer better than an 18th century general! I could cut the cost and go with individually based 10mm which would make the terrain usable for both periods where appropriate.

First Rule of this club…. they are not "TOY" soldiers! ;-)

Maybe the first rule of yours, but not the first rule of mine

Admit it, we are grown men (well mostly men) playing games with toys. Simple as that.

I thought the first rule of toy soldiers was not to talk about toy soldiers? Oops…

Achtung Goomba…maybe something to be said for Bolt Action – bit of a history by-pass, but easy to grasp, several decent youtube tutorials and if you do it in 20mm plastics very heap to get started; it's how my other half added WW2 to her interests as well as ACW, medieval and Ancients.

One good thing is she doesn't have memories of other rulesets cluttering up the learning process.

CoC would be a bad idea unless you want her first foray into the hobby her last. Good rules set. Definitely not for beginners. Go with simple. Very simple. Junior general has a few sets dealing with WW2. Lionel Tarr rules can be found online would make a good into to higher level rules. Build up from there.

CoC should be just fine as long as you are the ref. A new player reffing the game might be a problem (my first game was Squad Leader and I'm still here). Playing is simple if you focus on telling the players what they can do.

MajorB:
"Admit it, we are grown men (well mostly men) playing games with toys. Simple as that."

Abso-freaking-lutely! The sooner you free your mind, and admit to yourself that you play with toy soldiers, the sooner you can truly enjoy this hobby.

I think Bolt Action would be an easy intro… It's simple to learn and fairly fast to play.

Watch these Demos and you pretty much know how to play:
YouTube link

YouTube link

Plus you can use the troops for CoC or another game later…

Whatever you're comfortable with should work fine.

COC isn't hard to learn though from my experience, it takes a bit to internalize what each number on the order dice do.
Just make some index cards.

You're not selling a particular game system, you're selling passion for gaming :-)

I'm with Joker (and others). CoC is an excellent rule set – subtle, innovative, encourages realistic tactics. But a beginner's set it is not ("what does a 4 mean again? And how many 6's have we rolled?"). If you ref it then the game will work, but she's likely to feel that she is not participating in the game, just moving the toys.

Of the well-known sets I am afraid B*lt Acti*n does fit the beginner's mould best – it's got a simple, easily followed core mechanic, and everyone gets to participate. Other than that, there are plenty of simple rules on the net for free. But remember what most of us started with – something very simple (move all your men then shoot, 4-5-6 to hit).

You could also start out with Memoir '44. You can use your own miniatures on the board, or make you own hex pattern gaming cloth.

I'm shocked that this hasn't been suggested yet, but FUBAR is basically the perfect game for this sort of thing.

For what it's worth, I think CoC would be an excellent start. (disclaimer : haven't played the other games mentioned so can't compare them)

I don't find the basic orders system particularly complex and keep wanting to apply it to other games that lack 'friction'.

There are cheat sheets on the Yahoo group files section, and at link

Aside from using real world unit compositions (and not having to spend time 'building' a custom force from points), as well as rewarding real world tactics, it also is very good for teaching risk management via the phase/turn sequence and variable movement, and prioritisation via the limited number of actions you can take each phase.

Also, as each phase is short (you only move a few groups of figures each phase), both players can keep involvement and interest.

On scale and theatre, you need to consider what terrain you have available too. If you're starting from scratch, you might want to do western desert, and CoC does work on a virtually flat table.

On scale, pick whatever you think she'll like to paint: She needs to discover that an army you paint yourself fights better for you. ;)

The first game or two, particularly if you're both learning the rules is not to be afraid of 'rewinding the clock' if things go wrong. You might want to set up little 'microtactics' situations to try out the firing rules and assault rules outside an actual game to see how the mechanics work.

Most important thing is for both of you to have fun playing the game and leave ego behind.

I don't understand those who claim that CoC is difficult to learn. I had the main part of the rules down in just a couple of phases and I've never been mistaken for the sharpest tool in the box.

Second for Memoir 44. Nothing easier to learn (my boy's played it since he was 7) and gives the feel for a miniatures game with tanks, guns and infantry. They are currently working on a Great War version too!

If you go with PeterPig figure packs would recommend also go with their rules which are pretty simple and are designed for a 4x4 table. I do like Chain of Command but perhaps Peter Pig's rules would be a better fit for now?

I have used Crossfire with great success for guys who have never gamed before. Easy mechanics and a good rule set to start learning weapons and tactics with.

My $0.02 USD worth…

@ myxemail: I've been interested in Crossfire before but never been able to find a copy to purchase easily, has availability changed at all?

To those who suggest that Chain of Command is not a beginner set, what is it that you think makes it so? Is it the mechanics? Or the application of tactics? Surely it is better to start with a historical game that encourages the mechanics to work in a historical way? I would have thought learning the two together would make sense. Alex is a keen boardgamer already, an a talented chess player, so I imagine she has a good head for tactics. Surely the application will be the same once she grasps how the 'pieces' interact?

Thank you for the stimulating discussion thus far!

IMO, CoC rules are not difficult to learn – at least players from our group commented that they were way easier to grasp than most rules. Some of the core concepts are just different from the norm, so they might appear to be difficult, if you have preconceptions how for example unit activation or movement should work.

Well, units don't deploy from table edge or start on table, but from Jump Off Points which you can spend Chain of Command Points to move.

Then there are the Chain of Command dice themselves, which you can use to influence the flow of the game. A bit of a meta-gaming.

Once you get past those, the game really rewards good tactics, or rather punishes bad tactics.

Well, I'm the author, so you can probably take what I say with a pinch of salt, but I'll say it anyway.

Stuff like moving and firing has been kept very simple in Chain of Command. All you need to concentrate on is how you use your command dice. I have run many, many games at clubs and shows in the UK and Europe and new players usually pick the game up within the first turn.

There does seem to be a strange belief that rules which encourage the use of real tactics are somehow complicated. I don't subscribe to that.

Rich

I dont know about rules, but when I introduce gaming to new folks I give them a 3 or 4 to one odds advantage, and play a meeting engagement. Of coarse I try to win, but having the cards stacked so highly in their favor practically guaranties them a victory. With a taste for blood, they are more likely to come back for more! Losing right off the bat can be discouraging to some.

Would she enjoy painting her own figs? Ask her. If yes then give her some toys and when she paints them, she will "own" them. Somehow, when you paint a squad, they become "your men" and the dynamic becomes more personal.

Oh, and as Winston Smith said, dont wait.

Game on!

One good thing is she doesn't have memories of other rulesets cluttering up the learning process.

This is soooooo true!

I'm trying to learn 3rd edition Infinity, but it's just different enough from the previous editions that I keep tripping over "it USED to work this way" events.

From your description of your wife's interests, I think Chain of Command would be a good fit.

Good news! She's already asked if she can help paint my Marlburians, but was a little surprised to see how tiny the little 10mm guys are! Killing time in town today I found the PSC 1/72 scale infantry boxes for just £11.00 GBP, so I'll grab a box each of the British and German infantry for us to work on. That scale should be more manageable to paint (I'm pretty bad with a brush myself!) and still be suitable for platoon+ gaming on a small table, especially something like CoC where you don't deploy your entire force from the get go. I'll make a platoon officer of her yet!

(Need some Brit support that PSC don't yet make) the Germans are available.
So a Vickers, some PIATs and 2" mortars for CoC.

If i might chime in, I think you should get her drunk and leave the tin soldiers for some other time, if you know what i mean ;0)

One suggestion : it helps a lot to make the sections identifiable, and the section heavy weapons and junior/senior leaders easily picked out on the table.

I use slightly larger bases for the leaders and little disks (approx 5-6mm dia) glued to each base and painted with a number. I use metal offcuts from work but think plastic card or card run through a hole punch would work well.

I've been painting the disk in a battledress colour and the number in a high contrast colour (typically white or off-white).

On basing, I've been basing individual figures for the riflemen and larger bases for weapon teams (the BAR, BREN or MG42 to emphasise which figures are crew vs riflemen in that section). In retrospect that was suboptimal as you have to mark casualties and makes them more difficult to get into tight spaces.

If you can manage it, individual bases as far as you can go is best. It makes tracking casualties much simpler.

Washers work for consistancy. I use stick on magnets underneath them and have steel sheet in the storage boxes, which works for 15mm metal but with plastics, you may have other options.

BTW, for the British, buy an extra 2" mortar team or two if you can. They are incredibly useful!