"Regarding Anonymous Letters" Topic

I'm informed that someone has written anonymous letters to the employer of one of the instigators over on Frothers, complaining about his posts regarding TMP and our staff members (which were apparently made on work time).

This has become a topic of discussion on Frothers, I am told.

For the record, I've never sent anonymous letters to anyone, and I do not know who sent these letters.

For those of us (me, anyway) who don't know what this TMP-Frothers thing is about, could someone provide an infodump or some links to relevant threads?

If I'm stepping on a landmine just asking that, I apologize.

If I'm stepping on a landmine just asking that,

BOOM!!

To be clear, I know there's been some sniping between Frothers and other forums in years past. I'm just wondering if something major has happened more recently, as that's the impression I'm getting.

Do you really want to know?
Google Frothers and go on from there.
You may wish you hasn't.

If I'm stepping on a landmine just asking that,

BOOM!!

YouTube link

I read it over there and it sounds and smells fishy. Too many different agendas at play and we are asked to take people's word without evidence.
I am not accusing the accuser of anything but there are too many explanations. Outspoken blowhards attract enemies, and that includes me.

YouTube link

I do not participate over there any more in anonymous sniping because my ISP address is blacklisted for some cockamamie bs reason.
So much for the trumpeted "freedom" on Frothers.
So is the OFM's.

Winston, the 'blacklisted ISP' problem is an erratic one that comes and goes – seems all wargaming forums experience glitches from time to time.

Not that I've ever frothed, you understand, a man in a pub told me about it once. ;-)

Anonymous letters are the refuge of abhorrent scum

For those of us (me, anyway) who don't know what this TMP-Frothers thing is about, could someone provide an infodump or some links to relevant threads?

Someone using the name "Monkeyborg" has been one of the more active posters on the Frothers topic, Weird vibe on new assistant editor on TMP.

I have no idea which of Monkeyborg's posts provoked the anonymous author. The letters are postmarked Peterborough in the U.K., I understand.

"If I'm stepping on a landmine just asking that"

Not really a landmine, more like a flaming brown paper bag on your front porch.

If I were a Frother I would not want my employer to know it.

I think most of us keep our hobby quiet from our work colleagues, in fairness. :-)

I live ten minutes from the Peterborough in the UK! It must have been me! But I don't remember writing the letters. The last letter I wrote was to Santa Claus C/O Mummy and Daddy before Xmas.

I remember the former disgraced editor of MW receiving an apology from the government of Gibraltar after he made a complaint against an employee who apparently celebrated the demise of said editor in a direct email to said editor from his work address I.e. a government of Gibraltar email address. Maybe it was the former disgraced editor of MW – he has form!

Clearly some have too much time to waste. maybe they can paint my lead pile instead?

I should like to associate myself with Mr Manley's comment.

Supporting Bill is fine – doing it in this way is bizarre. I'm sure he doesn't want that kind of support.

Oh the outrage, after all they have threatened to do to Bill. (haha)

1600 pages of drivel plus another thread summing up the other thread. Don't they have anything better to do with their spare time like painting, or something constructive?

I'm going to Peterborough on Thursday, but I'm right out of Tachyon-class stamps, so I won't be able to post it into the past.

Whoever the sender is and whatever the motivation, this is cretinous behaviour.

Video games have been suffering from coordinated harassment campaigns for months now, I'd rather something like that didn't come to tabletop gaming.

Whoever the sender is and whatever the motivation, this is cretinous behaviour.

Anonymous tipsters are not necessarily cretins. For instance, there is some speculation on Frothers that this might be a complaint from a transgendered Frother whom Monkeyborg offended. Let's not rush to judgment.

Video games have been suffering from coordinated harassment campaigns for months now, I'd rather something like that didn't come to tabletop gaming.

Certainly no evidence for anything like that.

Weasel is quite correct. It's the actions of a foolish child. (mentally at least, I have doubts any real child would even think to write an actual paper letter.)

Calling it "anonymous tipster" adds a veneer of respectability is does not deserve.

Weasel is right. This is hardly comparable to blowing the lid on CIA torture or NSA surveillance. The smallness of the mind that would stoop to such a level is difficult to assess.

Frothers is an English site which I gather from looking at it a few times was put together to excoriate and vilify TMP and Bill in Particular, and to allow members to post points using completely filthy gutter language and insults.

Therefore anything associated with them in my mind is simply tainted. I don't go there any more and had I the opportunity I would not game with any of those people. This is simply not the way gentlemen discuss things.

I have several English friends who say this is "normal" and that I am taking it all out of context, and this is the way "mates" in England treat each other. It's all said in good fun and with a lot of affection. Really?

Strange, I've lots of English gaming friends and I've never heard them do this.

'Whoever the sender is and whatever the motivation, this is cretinous behaviour.'

and cowardly.

"Really?"

Yes. Although it's more a male thing than a female thing. I'm reasonably happy joining in because I usually work in male-dominated environments. Also I have a tendency to be grumpy and sweary and that does sort of help.

"Strange, I've lots of English gaming friends and I've never heard them do this."

We don't do this around forriners. Well unless, like a French colleague of mine, they've indicated they're happy to join in[1]. Otherwise it would be *rude*[2].

"This is simply not the way gentlemen discuss things."

English gentlemen quite often DO talk to each other like that. "How are you, you old b------?" being a traditional (inebriated) greeting suitable only for the closest of friends.

Frothers is an OPENLY hostile environment where sniping is expected to be done in plain sight and with style if you don't want to be heckled for it.

TMP only really has the sort of circumlocuitous niggling which makes Brits pine for honesty.

[1] By claiming that France was less surrender monkeys than Britain because they'd won the 100 years war against us…

[2] Remember the rule; A gentleman is someone who is never *unintentionally* rude.

Sorry Katie, there's no way you can clean this up.

Continuous use of the "F" word and other scatological language, heckling and the sort of verbal intercourse you talk about does one thing. It pollutes language and renders the terms commonplace and devoid of their meaning. You have no way to show people then that you are REALLY Angry.

I've seen people do what you are talking about to each other and say it's all in jest, but I can tell by the semiotics, tone, inflection and body language it's daggers drawn.

Finally please explain to me in what context such profane and brutalized language on a public forum, about war games, is a good thing. I see no reason or any examples of where the "circumlocuitous niggling" is present when people are talking about simple war games and the hobby, nor your vaunted British yearning for honesty" except when it gets personal, and I see no reason for the gutter-trash talk about the simple hobby of Wargames.

People are mean to other or circumlocuitously niggling only when they wish to be mean and nasty to each other.

Finally your example of "English gentlemen quite often DO talk to each other like that. "How are you, you old b------" is true, but the two in this case know each other intimately and for a long time. People on Frothers I assume do not know each other intimately, and certainly they do not know Americans intimately, and as individuals, and therefore by your own definition, the language is misplaced.

In the end it's a simple choice. One chooses to talk to friends about their hobby plainly and discuss things plainly, or one does it as Frothers does simply to show disrespect and contempt. I made my choice for TMP with all it's faults simply because it's far less anti-social than Frothers.

Winston the OFM,

I am not accusing the accuser of anything…

No, but you are implying a hell of a lot though. Only a buffoon would not recognise that the blatantly obvious intent behind it is pretty much the same.

Outspoken blowhards attract enemies, and that includes me.

This sentence is confusing and poorly constructed. Does "that includes me" refer to the "outspoken blowhards" or to "enemies" … or both? If both, you must have a real self-esteem dilemma. And there is a pitiful irony to the blatant bluster of your posturing here.

(which were apparently made on work time).

Editor in Chief Bill – why did you feel the need to mention this unnecessary fact… other than to imply wrongdoing and (despite your later statement) actually cast judgement yourself? I would have thought a huge proportion of the audiences on most fora/forums, engage during work time to a greater or lesser degree…. including many of your TMP fanboys here. Whilst some people stuck in an unenlightened IT past take a hard line over this, there is plenty of evidence to support the view that rather than imposing a harsh "thou shalt not" approach to such matters, actually allowing employees a little "freedom" (and some trust!) prevents general abuse of the privilege and improves productivity overall.

Sadly, from what I understand, the actions reported on Frothers are somewhat more serious than those of an "anonymous tipster" and to label them as such is lazy at best, highly irresponsible at worst. The allegations entail legal implications of a possible defamous nature and similarly, whilst they may be "hardly comparable to blowing the lid on CIA torture or NSA surveillance" they are for the individual recipient concerned, extremely serious as their job could potentially be at risk due to somebody's malice.

I am well aware of the ongoing spat between TMP and Frothers but this action takes it to whole new unpleasant and dangerous level.

Editor in Chief Bill – you do yourself no favours whatsoever by engaging in this kind of childish, petty tittle-tattle and speculation. There is a term that aptly describes it… stirring… and it stinks.

Everything KatieL said ^^^

OSchmidt, you state Frothers was:

put together to excoriate and vilify TMP and Bill in Particular…

For goodness sake, what utter BS. There are a handful of discussion threads out of well over 70,000 buried away in one of the Frothers forums. As for gentlemanly conduct, TMP is full of vitriol either open or at best, hidden behind only the flimsiest facade of reasonability… along with a whole heap of rabid gungho bigotry… and hypocrisy.

red perilla wrote:

lol

you make some valid points dude but stop being such a gigantic posho about it…….

Not really. I'm not a flag waving nationalist and I'm certainly not posh. Would it help you if I just said , and nob in every sentence?

"For goodness sake, what utter BS. There are a handful of discussion threads out of well over 70,000 buried away in one of the Frothers forums. As for gentlemanly conduct, TMP is full of vitriol either open or at best, hidden behind only the flimsiest facade of reasonability… along with a whole heap of rabid gungho bigotry… and hypocrisy."

I was going to post pretty much the same thing, RP, but you did it first and much better than I would have. Well done.

(which were apparently made on work time).

Editor in Chief Bill – why did you feel the need to mention this unnecessary fact…

Because from what has been reported, that is the crux of the letter-writer's case – that the employer is responsible, because the posts were made using company resources, on company time.

Sadly, from what I understand, the actions reported on Frothers are somewhat more serious than those of an "anonymous tipster" and to label them as such is lazy at best, highly irresponsible at worst. The allegations entail legal implications of a possible defamous nature and similarly, whilst they may be "hardly comparable to blowing the lid on CIA torture or NSA surveillance" they are for the individual recipient concerned, extremely serious as their job could potentially be at risk due to somebody's malice.

If his job is at risk, wouldn't it be due to his own actions? I imagine the employer will look at whether the postings violated workplace rules, regardless of the motives of the tipster.

One more think Katie

So you are saying that the British are honest when they speak about each other as you said. That means, if honest, they really do think that way about each other, and the terms they use really are what you mean to say.

Sorry Red Perilla, but that's what it seems to be.

I've looked at the other threads. Pretty anemic. Besides, the gutter mouth image and nasty attacks is what Forthers prides itself on, what it advertises itself as, and what it's people want it to be, and what it features.

If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck and wants to be taken for a duck…don't be upset when it is taken at it's word.

As for TMP vitriol hidden under the flimsiest façade of respectability, I'm sorry for you but that flimsy façade makes all the difference and makes TMP bearable.

Well said Otto!

For the record, I've never sent anonymous letters to anyone, and I do not know who sent these letters.

Editor in Chief Bill – if that is the case, how could you possibly know what the crux of the mystery letter is?

Editor in Chief Bill – if that is the case, how could you possibly know what the crux of the mystery letter is?

As I said, based on what has been reported on Frothers. Why else contact the employer?

that flimsy façade makes all the difference and makes TMP bearable

You omit to reference the whole heap of rabid gungho bigotry…

oh well, I did mention hypocrisy already…

I certainly hope that ordinary neutral TMPers like myself are not viewed as vitriolic, bigots, hypocrites or as people who only engage in circumlocuitous niggling by people on Frothers. Likewise, I hope that the ordinary Frother is not painted with a similarly broad brush by people on TMP. I don't know what I or others like me on TMP have done to deserve such vilification, and I'm sure there are counterparts of ourselves on Frothers. We're just looking for places to discuss the hobby. The reason I asked what this spat is about was to better avoid any landmines in the future.

Red, I've Locked your account, as I believe (based on the logs) that you are trolling TMP.

Dear Red Perilla

As for the whole heap of rabid gungho bigotry.

I am sorry for you that you do not love your country but despise it, but Americans tend to love their country and think quite well of it. We take as proof that we are pretty much tops in the world for a large rich country, that everyone else in the world would brave danger and hell to soul to live here.

As for Gung-ho, I take it you mean our military and belligerence- Very well- Americans have, and have always had a great, huge, deep slobbering lover affair with their armed forces, and are proud of the men who serve. Many of them are our sons, and all of them we feel, like Bismark, that the whole of the world is not worth the life of one American Marine.

But if TMP is so horrible to you, if we are so despicable here, and so revolting to your sensibilities, then why are you here? Why don't you go to Frothers and never come back.

Why are you here if this forum affects you to the point of derangement.

….. that everyone else in the world would brave danger and hell to soul to live here.

That's what this thread badly needed – a joke. And a damn funny one at that…

DBDD

I am amazed (again) at the depth of ill-will that evidently exists beneath the surface of the hobby.

I have no dog in the fight but two points occur to me having read the preceding posts:

1) There are still plenty of UK companies that take a decidedly old school view of employees making personal use of IT resources and company time, even for wholly innocent purposes. In some cases this can be treated as gross misconduct. If Monkeyborg works for a company with that sort of IT policy, he must have been aware that he was taking a risk with potentially serious consequences. While it could happen to any of us, the justification that "everyone does it" is in reality no defence at all.

2) I have never sent an anonymous letter to anyone and doubt I ever will. However, when vitriol is expended on public fora such as TMP or Frothers, much of it is under a user name so that the poster is effectively anonymous. Whatever were Monkeyborg's comments that started this, they were evidently considered offensive by someone and (presumably) made anonymously. How different is that from writing an anonymous letter? To answer my own question, not that much.

All of which leads me to conclude that whether or not the letter was signed is a red herring. The more relevant issue is that somebody evidently felt strongly enough about whatever Monkeyborg said to take things further, and involve his employer. And that is something we should probably all bear in mind if posting on a public forum from work.

and all of them we feel, like Bismark, that the whole of the world is not worth the life of one American Marine.

OSchmidt – I am British and with you concerning the language on Frothers, which is base to say the least and certainly not representative of those I game with. However, the passage I have quoted from your post seems a bit extreme, suggesting as it does that your nation's allies don't count for much in the US psyche! If that is indeed the mainstream US viewpoint, I sincerely hope we keep hold of our independent nuclear deterrent.

For a second there, I thought people were starting to insinuate that posting on a ty internet forum is justification for receiving threats in the mail and at your job.

Then I thought "oh man, that'd be so weird if people actually said that, so I'm sure they didn't".

Weasel – if your post was in response to mine, then you were wrong first time and your second thought is correct.

Some chicken – Was not directed towards you.

All I know is that ONCE AGAIN, this place was nice and quite and banging along on 7.5 cylinders until Bill the Editor brought the subject up.

I had no idea this was going on, no one else here had mentioned it (please correct me if I'm wrong) and then WHAM, as usual…all "Bluddy Blue Heck" breaks out.

Could we go an entire year around here without something breaking out…like we used to…eons ago?

As for Red Perilla…methinks he was wronged by having his account blocked. He may have been VERY DIRECT, but I saw no evidence of trolling. If RP was locked, then KatieL would not be too terribly far from being defined a "troll" and she's always been a stand up person here on TMP…so where is the line drawn?