"Do you prefer pikemen advancing or standing in pose?" Topic

I am going to start a Landsknecht army, and the same question occurred to me regarding 30YW/ECW--do you prefer your pikemen to be in an advancing pose, a marching pose, or a standing pose?

I personally do not like pikes-leveled at all as a pose because it is too difficult to use on the tabletop. I think the standing pose is easier to paint, because the arm is outstretched away from the body (usually), whereas the advancing pose usually has the pikemen with arms in from of the body.

A mix … from upright all the way to levelled – dropping to the horizontal by ranks (and everyone advancing). Ease of painting makes no difference.

Phil

Standing or marching, the figures are easier to game with if the pikes are upright. I make mine from brass wire and they have drawn blood – mine.

Levelled pikes look dramatic but they are a nuisance to game with and I dislike those ultra deep bases that model the ground under the levelled pikes.

I painted up an OG Hoplite army first two ranks with leveled pikes, third rank advancing pike, back two ranks upright. They look great but I had to leave a large space on the base accommodate the leveled pikes.

I prefer upright pikes. Easier to game with, too hard to line up lowered pikes with opposing troops. Especially other pike.

What about advancing poses, where pike is only at a slight angle forward, versus the pure upright position (where the pike is often held to the side of the figure)?

My favourite is the "receive horse" position, with the pike braced against the pikeman's foot and held at a 45 degree angle (pointing up of course).

I always used to prefer pikes upright, of course these can be a pain to remove from their boxes! Recently I have painted some landsknechts and Swiss with level pikes. Getting into Pike and Shotte I have based them on 120 x 60mm bases 15/18 figures per base, all at one end so that the pikes barely overhand=g the front of the base, It looks nice and is not a pain in the rear to move around. In addition it is safe to remove them from their storage boxes!

Tally Ho!

Both. I'm working on one of each right now.

While large, well-done-up blocks with the front rank leveled look great, I won't deal with anything other than advancing and standing.

I make mine from brass wire

Brass homemade, or steel from North Star.

I always prefer my figures to be in an attack stance.

Upright, all else is a nightmare

For a pikemen who used his weapon aggressively, such as Landsknechts or Swiss during mid/late renaissance, I prefer some sort of animation. They do not need to be level, but all standing seems a bit weird alone in pike block, as if they are all going to level their pikes and fire a spear point. If you have a screen of missile troops in front, or based on the same stand, it looks Ok to me.

In the TYW and ECW, pikemen were aggressive, just not with their pikes, so much as their swords or "tucks." So when you see a few scattered pikemen standing with a pike upright, even 1:5 in later TYW or ECW, and with the right mug on the man, he can convey the expression…"I got this."

ilodic.

Both up and tilted at 45 degrees. Makes it look like a proper hedge of pikes.

Yes.

Having all your pikemen holding their pikes aloft simplifies things. OTOH we don't usually use static poses for our shot and horse.

I had a Macedonian army back in my WRG days. A nice army with rear ranks upright and front ranks level just could not contact models of similar armies. Sadly, it must be 45 degrees or upright. Level pikes are for dioramas.

Pikes upright for the same reasons as other posters have stated.

Like a number of players I am playing with level pikes this weekend. Not a problem.

Phil

Convenience of vertical but appearance of all positions. Playing vertical, taking pictures all positions. I prefer the shorter pikes all around….

Pike upright, prefer standing although marching is ok. I also prefer shorter pikes.

Levelled pikes can work without compromise or entaglement if you use a long base;

I prefer pikes upright. Too many macedonian armies fighting with pikes at 45 degree. Nobody can get the opposing bases into contact.

Initially, I was thinking about packing so went for upright in a single rank. But after a minutes thought I agree with wrgmr1 about having a mix of poses on an extended base. The added bonus is that you can protect the pikes if they don't project beyond the base and you can always add little scenic bits and pieces to fill the large space.

NB … no need for extended bases. I have arranged mine so that the first two ranks (where the level pikes are) are on a double base (you will never get that many killed but if you do 'bring back the dead' so you can replace them) …

Mount your first two ranks in a tight phalanx on the back of the double base. That'll allow some space under the pikes

… then … I have a blank base/spacer which goes under the pikes before contact so you don't end up with a pike mangle at the front. As it is a full size base, for real estate purposes you just ignore the back rank of bases in the unit.

I am 9 games into using the current (actually Huguenot) army – games in which the pikes of course always get stuck in – and it works even better than I expected (because with other basing and non-pike units there can be a mess putting the troops into contact) and it solves all the problems.

Now inevitably there will be wargamers who still feel that their Landsknechts in rest positions, face-to face with the enemy look better than mine/ours in fighting poses, pike-to-pike … but they would, wouldn't they (they nailed their colours to a different ship's mast) – but taste and aesthetics are different matters.

The OP asked what do you prefer … and I gave my preference. It being TMP, people of a different preference necessarily chimed in with the view that preferences other than theirs were 'impossible'… 'a nightmare' … 'for dioramas' … 'a nuisance' … etc.

It being TMP, these are myths (or better, minor problems to which a number of solutions were found some time ago) but which get more and more resonance due to repetition. As long as people get it, that's fine …

Phil

Having dug out my old TYW army to spruce up for a new set of rules. The upright pikes seem to have survived being in storage for getting on for 20 years far better than the levelled ones.

Examples of some of my chaps in various poses at:

link

Tally Ho!

As others have said, rear ranks with pike upright, front ranks beginning to lower them up to 45 degrees. If there are 3 or more ranks, the second rank could have pikes angled half-way between those of the rank behind and in front.

Cheers

Pikemen – even on the day of battle – spent much more time marching or standing around than they did actually fighting, so 'upright' has to be the easy answer. We've got lots of Scottish 'long spear' and 12/14 foot spear is as awkward as any pike in wargame terms. The 'horizontal' chaps look great, but we've stopped even trying to use them on the table since (being clumsy) we knock so many spears out of tiny little hands.

I have very unfond memories of bending the arms on the Hinchliffe Successor pikemen from a horizontal position up to 45 degrees.
Most of my pikes (ECW, Elizabethan, Italian Wars, Macedonian) are upright however I do like the Old Glory advancing pose, especially for Italian wars types moving forward aggressively.

My 15 mm Scots Pike Blocks for Flodden all have vertical pikes and I do like the look of them en masse. However, they have the original pikes and I find that I have to be careful reaching into the 4 ranks of figures due to the danger of bending the weapons.

Didn't have pictures to illustrate my comments earlier … now do … see:-

TMP link

Phil

Although many modelers and gamers can do an excellent job with leveled pikes, I will never but anything but upright pikes.