"Tell Me About 10mm Wargaming" Topic

I'm returning to gaming after a few years hiatus and my first project is 28mm skirmish including some modular terrain (space considerations here at home).

In my absence, I've noticed that 10mm seems to have taken off. Perhaps because of those same space considerations for others?

As I was looking at some of the (very nicely!) painted armies here and there on the fora it occurred to me that at that scale you could have some fairly large battles in a much smaller table space and what would take a 4' x 8' span in 28mm could be done in 2' x 4' or less in 10mm.

But that all said, I don't know what the rules are like. Do the rules take advantage of the size in this way with ground scale or do you just cram more figures onto the same large tables?

Any and all comments are welcome!

Cheers,
Dave

But that all said, I don't know what the rules are like. Do the rules take advantage of the size in this way with ground scale or do you just cram more figures onto the same large tables?

Generally speaking, rules are figure size agnostic. The advantage of smaller sized figures is that you can fit more on the base and thus convey an impression of a bigger army.

Or you can reduce the ground scale and play the same size games on less real estate.

As MajorB says, for element based games (and the vast majority of games are) the scale of figures doesn't really matter.

Greetings

People can (a) increase the figure per unit count (b) increase the number of units that can be deployed in the same space (c) decrease the space required.

For example my (in progress) 10mm SYW have 24 figures per battalion and deploy 2 deep in a 10cm frontage – this would take 18-24cm in 28mm. This is fine for, for example, Black Powder, Piquet Field of Battle, Minden Rose etc.

If I combine two battalions to play a large unit game I have 48 figures on a 20cm frontage for, for example, The Wargame.

I can usually have a 6' x 4' gaming area but intend to play smaller SYW scenarios on a 4' x 3'.

My existing 10mm WW2 are Soviet and German Ostfront 1943 where I almost always use 6' x 4' but can get a good force on the table at one stand = 1 platoon, and the scale contributes to a less 'hub to hub' tank approach. I am also building 10mm early Desert WW2.

Edward

Hi Dave, as the owner of a 10mm Company, I like the look and have never really used smaller dimensions on bases or battlefields. I use the dimensions for 15mm and simply put alot more figures on my bases (6-8 on a 1 X 3/4" base). I own and use my ACW figures, but also have a fairly large collection of Napoleonic 10mm.

Bill Moreno
crackerlineminis.com

10mm is 5mm smaller than the already too-small 15mm figures.

Mike … 28mm Man

Or 28mm is 13mm bigger than the already too big 15mm figures.

and…… 4 x the price tag as wel! Better get a second mortgage/ or job going 28s!

: -)

MG

@ wargamer Dave,
Purchase some of Bill's 10 mm, paint them up, and try the 2 x different mounting schemes mentioned already.
Then decide which way to go!
One way to look at it…. A unit has a specific frontage so adding too or removing bases in either can be done for game play/rule sets. So the bottom line is what you think your army should look like and go in that direction.

MG

Hi Dave, there's a load of info over on our Forum: link if you fancy popping in. We've also got a great bunch of friendly and helpful (occasionally crazy) members who can help out with any queries.

Give me a shout if I can help with anything as well.

I use 10mm almost exclusively. Easy to paint, cheaper to buy, less room needed, plenty available, N Gauge friendly terrain, lots of advantages.

As for scale, the smaller the figs the better. Dont forget that minis are often WAY bigger than the ground scale you're playing on. At 1 inch = 25 meters, even a 6mm tank is the size of a house.

10mm is the best scale for horse and musket periods when you need mass effect. I have painted up thousands of 10mm for ACW (1200) and Napoleonics (1500). They look just as good as 15mm, but are faster to paint and you can put more of them on a table. There is nothing like a 10mm 32 man unit to convey mass and style.
Another advantage is the many choices available now, from when I did my projects 10 years ago. Old Glory Army deal is a great way to get a big army started.
Good luck

@ Steamingdave-wait til you hit 50 my man…

I'm with steamingdave at age 63!

10mm is great for a number of reasons. 1. Most of my 10mm chaps are on 60mm x 40mm bases with 3 bases to a unit. A heavy infantry unit can have as many as 16 figures on each of the three bases so what you see gives a greater impression of a unit than 12 x 28mm or even 24 x 15mm figures. 2. As far as rules are concerned, a fair few of them now state that if both sides use the same basing conventions then it isn't really a problem. 3. They are even large enough to have skirmish games with. 4. It doesn't rinse your bank account to get a decent sized force on the table.

Just a few, but as Leon says, have a look at the Pendraken forum and see what you think. They don't bite, in fact some of them are downright friendly.

I am 54 and have no issues seeing my 10mm figures. I enjoy 28mm figures as well for smaller engagements. I am not sure why some consider them mutually exclusive. If you want to do a full battle, 10mm is the way to go. I use my 28mm less frequently, but I do use them as well. Try some 10mm, from Leon or myself and see for yourself. You won't go broke on a few bags of 10mm. My stuff mixes very well with Pendraken.

crackerlineminis.com

I sold my 15 mm WW2 and switched to 10 mm for WW2 and modern. They are slightly larger than micro armor, but you can still ID the figures across the table. Here is a 10mm Cold War Commander game with a Soviet motorized rifle regiment vs a US battalion task force on a 6x4 foot table:

link

My ACW is still 15 mm. That collection is too large to start over, but if I did, it would be with the Cracker Line figures. They are fantastic. I tried 10 mm for SYW and Nappies, but couldn't do them justice with my old eye.

Since most games have ranges that are a bit on the short end, just use the same distances with the smaller figures. It'll look and play great.

For element-based games (common in historicals, uncommon in scifi), you can also squeeze an extra figure or two on the bases, which helps make them look better.

For 10mm fantasy, my go to rules remain Warmaster. I also have the historical variant, Warmaster Ancients, and if you look around a bit on the web, you'll find some free variants for AWI and other settings. It's actually a rather versatile system in terms of general concept and game play.
The only real scale aspect of the game is simply that smaller scales like 10mm and 6mm allow you to build armies that look like armies rather than a handful of guys.

However, on a side note, there is currently a move towards 10mm fantasy gaming on individual bases, particularly "tiny" dungeoncrawls. The space advantage should be obvious! I haven't done this yet, but it's a rather tempting (and cheap) way to get into dungeon skirmish gaming.

Lastly, I find the painting of 10mm considerably less daunting than larger scales. Basic colors and a nice wash are sufficient to create an attractive little army, without feeling one has to do trickier blending or highlighting. So they paint quickly and look great with a smaller palette selection (an often unmentioned bit of savings there as well). But one can still achieve stunning effects, if one has the inclination and the skill (alas, I would not be such a one).

Hi Dave,

I'm only a painter not a gamer, but if you want high quality figs at a very reasonable price i highly recommend Pendraken, very detailed, a vast range and exceptional customer service.

kev

Bizarre, this thread has been posted across 5 different periods of discussion boards .
Did you want to know about 10mm Ancient wargame rules , Medevial rules , Napoleonic rules, ACW rules or WW2 rules.

Pendraken is planning a pretty decent expansion into Cold War minis, in the coming year(s), so are worth checking into.

The already do the Falklands and Vietnam, and have recently released quite a few minis for the Arab-Israeli Wars too, e.g. Centurions, etc.

There's a new Modern Requests section on their forum, and a bit of discussion about the types of troops and vehicles we'd like to see released first.

Cold War Soviet troops, and IFVs/APCs are at, or near the top of the listing, since we need those to go with their T-54s and T-55s, for Northern Europe.

I use 10mm for almost everything (for SYW I have kept my old 6mm for really massive armies). The detail to numbers ratio is just about perfect, and there are more and more good figures. Pendraken and Newlines have wonderful ranges, and Magister Militum and Irregular Miniatures are useful back-ups. There are others too.
If only someone would do a 10mm conquest of Mexico range, instead of yet another dam' Caesar's conuest of Gaul….

You mention limits space – 10mm is good for this.

1) Storage. Even with shouldered arms the height of a man (to tip of bayonet) is only about 15mm. I don't know if you have 'Really Useful Box' boxes in the US – They are the best storage. They do 'Hobby Trays': these are 15 (5x3) compartments, each compartment 60mm square, and about 30mm high. 4 fit in their 9 litre box, 2 in the 4 litre. All their boxes have clip handle lids, so are nice and secure, and are very strong. You can get 2 matched armies in a box the size of 2 packs of printer paper.

They also weigh a lot less. 6 figs on a 20mm base weighs less than 1 28mm

2) Flexibility. My bases are 20mm or 30mm. You get a frontage of 3 on 20mm, 4 slightly looser order on 30mm. Now with my ACW they are on 30mm – 7-9 figures per base. This fits with F&F and They Couldn't hit an Elephant inch bases, and I have twice the number of figures.

Now we usually do BP in cms – we read 1 inch as 1 cm. This would give 4 stands to the unit – the frontage being 120mm, rather than the 240-270mm in the rules. HOWEVER we are planning to do a 'inch' game, using 8 stand units on a larger table.

I'm trying to decide for Lion Rampant: 12 man units, or 12 bases of 4 men, both are viable

3) playing area. If you have to reduce table scale due to space, it doesn't feel silly. I've long maintained that WH40K makes more sense if you take it visually the next level up. Put 2-3 figures on a base, and call it a team: Keep the same rules, that team/base = 1 28mm figure, but not only do you have units firing what looks a decent distance, but I think some of the rules might make more sense if you see the target as a team.

If you go the read inches as cm route, then if the rules want a 6 x 4 table for an inch based game, then the equivalent is 72cm x 48 cm, basically a quarter.

4) Painting. Trust me, they are quick to paint. Pendraken has a load of detail on, its just you don't paint buckles and eyes. I hate painting, and I find them easiest. If you half the height of a square, its a quarter of the size- same with figures: you can do a pair of legs with 2 brush strokes – one front, one back. Then dry brush and wash – a dry brush picks out the apostles on a Pendraken ECW musketeer. Its hard to make too big an error (there isn't the space!). Anyone who can just sit and paint can paint hundreds in a weekend. I did 108 (3 bns) in 36 hours, and that was in fits and starts (including sleeping and jobs round the house)

5) Cost. Oh god yes. How does anyone put together a non skirmish army in 28mm? I fit 6 (3x2) on a 20mm base, the same as one 28mm. 6 10's are 90p from Pendraken (£4.50 for 30). How much are 28mm horses? Pendraken 10mm is 15 for £4.50 GBP – 30p each. Cannon are cheap enough that I buy two per cannon – one limbered, one being loaded/fired, so you don't get the odd spectacle of men on the base loading a limbered piece!

We have based 10mm WW2 (BKC and IABSM). My friend bought new armies for Chain of Command and based singularly – effectively repeats, because you only need 30-50 figures a side. We play the rules as is, but with a figure scale close to ground scale. The infantry cost a tenner an army, plus he can have all the vehicles combos he needs/wants. as they are only £3.00 GBP a tank.

It's all 10mm on my blog, all painted with tired old eyes.

link

I would, perhaps, recommend Post 37 where I mull over some of the same questions as yours.

Cheers, Michael

Interesting blog Michael.

Thanks, Bill. I note we not only share an interest in 10mm Napoleonic but also an age range! I'd love to do ACW with your figures and Pendrakens but Naps are keeping me busy at the moment. Perhaps you could venture into Pendraken-compatible Napoleonic 10mm production?

Also, while infantry is a bit cheaper than 15mm, the tanks are much cheaper and the difference in storage and table space there really pays off.

After having finished gaming a few games with 10mm SYW my only regret is not having started it sooner!

Ordered up a bunch of 10mm Pendraken ACW and looking forward to getting started which will now be my 3rd scale in this period…..Anyhow, I'll keep my 28mm stuff for small actions and sell off my 15mm in favour of 10mm to fight the big battles as it looks and feels better imho.

Christopher

Thanks everyone – this is all incredibly useful.

Last Hussar – they do sell the Really Useful Boxes here in the US. They opened their own distribution center.

Hi take all

Take a look at my site its all 10mm

Take care

Andy

10mm Wargaming.com

10mm Wargaming Facebook

Dave – Buy them. May seem a bit pricey to start with, but look at the rubbish gamers carry figures round in- £/$00's in cardboard boxes trusting to magnabase. These are strong and secure. They stack as well.

I knocked a stack over. the lids held- only the top one had a problem- one of the handles flipped open, and a few bases spilled, but that was it. The others were all easily sorted, because they didn't all end up in a pile at one end – each compartment held its own figures in, meaning less damage, and easier sorting out.

Also if I paint unit specific uniforms, I put a label under the base. You can hold the tray up and look through the clear tray bottom to see the labels.

Well I took out all my 15mm ACW getting ready to sell it in favour of 10mm and was surprised to see how much I already had painted and so have decided to stay with 15mm for practical reasons. However, if I was starting from scratch there is no question I'd go 10mm. For now I'll play my 15mm and do some 10's on the side. If I ever accumulate enough painted 10mm then I'll get rid of my 15's.

Christopher