"Where did the guns point ...Naval armaments for dummies (me)" Topic

I am new to ww2 naval wargaming. I have the scenario for the battle of Cape spada ready to go. But i have one problem. How do I determine the areas that the guns cover?

Consider the Italian ship Giovanni delle Bande Nere. She has 8 6" guns in 4 twin housings and 6 3.9" guns in 3 twin housings.

I am guessinG
That the ship has the 6"guns with 4 guns to the bow and 4 guns aft. I have looked at photos but I cannot determine anything with clarity. And that does not help help me tell where the 3.9" guns point.

Is there a general rule about how the turrets are placed on the ship? Is there some kind of naval quality you develop that helps you know this? I was a tanker in the army. Tanks are easy…mordern tanks have one gun and it has 360 degree coverage. Ships are more complex.

For instance I know the Graf Spee has 3 11" guns facING the bow and 3 facing aft. I am not sure which direction the 8 6"and 6 4"guns face. You may be thinking I should look at my ships. I used 1/6000 scale ships. It is tough to make out the turrets on the light cruisers and destroyers.

Does anyone have any advice?

As a rule of thumb I allow all centreline mountings to fire over a 90 degree arc on either side, forward mountings to cover a 90 degree arc (45 deg each side of the bow) and aft mountings to cover a 90 degree arc (45 deg each side of the stern). So a ship with the arrangement of two twin mounts forward and two twin mounts aft, as in the Bande Nere, will have 4 guns covering the forward arc, 8 on the beam and 4 astern.

This is not 100% accurate as often guns can traverse further, but firing near the extremes of their firing arcs can damage a ship's own structure and is discouraged. This does encourage players to manoeuvre their ships to keep open the "A" arcs (where the maximum number of guns will bear).

Determining the arcs covered by secondary guns is a much more complicated issue. If you have access to a deck plan or a larger scale model it is possible to work them out by eye. The majority of these guns were mounted so they could only bear to one side only.

In the absence of any accurate information assume half of the secondary guns can bear to each side.

In reality these weapons were of less utility than wargamers often wish. Bande Nere's 3.9" weapons were intended as anti-aircraft weapons with a secondary role against surface vessels. In the latter case they were only effective at short range.

As far as I can remember Bande Nere's 3.9" were in three twin mountings, one on each side and one centrally on the after superstructure.

IIRC, in naval wargame rules it is reasonably conventional to allow WWII-era aft-mounted main armament turrets to fire across an arc of +/- 135 degrees from aft, forward-mounted turrets to fire across an arc of +/- 135 degrees from forward, and other centerline turrets (like Nelson's "X" turret) to fire across an arc of +/- 45 degrees from the broadside. For secondaries, rules often specify forward/aft/port/starboard quadrants. This was also a function of the number and position of gun directors.

One can modify these rules-of-thumb with house rules, based on photos and plans (use on-line or hard-copy references).

In real life, the extreme portions of these firing arcs could damage one's own ship, but sometimes the exigencies of combat required this as the lesser of two evils.

BTW, I think that Pontius' statement that "forward mountings to cover a 90 degree arc (45 deg each side of the bow)" is a typo, as he does admit that Bande Nere should be able to fire her entire main armament on the broadside, which would not be possible if this quotation were taken literally. :-)

Mark H.

I played a game of seekreig 4 a long time ago at a hobby store. I loved the game and but had no idea what game I played. I was very young in my wargame career. Outside of 40k and fantasy the only historical game I knew of was rise and decline of the third reich.

Seekreig is a great rules set. The ship charts list the primary, secondary and tertiary turrets but does not give placement. I am avoiding a lot of complexity because I am focusing on smaller historical engagements in the Atlantic and the Mediterranean.

I bought all the ships for the battle of Cape spada for under $20. USD You cannot beat that.

It seems like most of the light cruisers had a main armament of 6 to 8 guns and then a secondary row of lighter AA guns. Pontius' guidelines is good advice.

Does anyone know of website or book that showe detailed deck plans for ww2 ships?

Lots of on-line stuff can be searched for; here's an example: link

Mark H.

Mark H,

Yes, I was suffering a "senior moment". I was getting mixed up the limits for "A" arcs. I should have said a 270 degree arc (135 either side) as you say.

If you can find one, get hold of an appropriate copy of Janes Fighting Ships, or Conways Fighting Ships of the World. Janes has deck plans of most ships down to destroyer size, and I think Conways has the same.

The larger public libraries may have copies in their reference sections. Also there was an edition produced several years ago which were reprints taken from the 1939 and 1945/6 editions. I picked up one plus the WWI copy for about £10.00 GBP each from a discount bookshop.

Here's another link for WWII(+) ships, from the other thread:

link

Mark H.

You can often get scans of oop editions of Jane's on free download sites. I got the 1942 version on Scribd.

Fatman