"The Thirty Years War by C.V.Wedgwood" Topic

…I have problems reading it.

Is it really supposed to be one of the best works on the subject? Too much attention to the looks of the main players, " beautiful English princess" (i.e Friedrich's wife) each 20 pages or so,many references to other contemporary authors, and not first-hand info…While some reviewers like her style ("entertaining kind of history"), however I liked "Life of 12 Caezars" but can't force myself loving C.V.W. book…Am I the only one?

I must admit it's an awful long time since I read the book, but I don't recall any problems myself.

Probably not, Wedgwoods style is of its time, and that can be hard, but as an overview and primer it is still an excellent book.

As are the 2 books on the ECW.

Well, it is more than 75 years old, and I doubt if many people would regard it as "one of the best works on the subject" these days. But I have always found it extremely readable.

I think this is better that Wedgewood:

link

It makes the whole thing much more understandable.

Peter Wilson book looks tempting…don't think it is translated, but I guess i might buy English version. Meanwhile I'll try to finish Wedgwood book…Not that it is not interesting – I've bought it, bcs. the subject IS interesting to me, but i just dislike something in the manner…may be too much versions and speculations. Will return here when I'm done.

I read it when I was at school, which was a really, really long time ago… I suspect it has aged as well as its contemporaries.

Thanks Pictorstudio. Just ordered.

Erik

Wedgwood was the first real history of the Thirty Years War that I encountered. I got it used, in paperback. I enjoyed it the first time I read it, and the second. By the third I was starting to notice how much detail of the battles was being skipped and how certain campaigns were barely mentioned. It was probably the fourth reading when I started noticing how events from Wedgwood's own time were coloring the text. Still I kept reading it until the book fell apart.

I have since moved on to other works I like better, including Wilson's mentioned above. Still if I came across another inexpensive copy of Wedgwood, I would probably buy it.

Wedgewood is good. It has stood the test of time well. Wilson is very good, but a much longer read, and focusses on the politics a lot more. But, you can't read about the TYW without understanding the politics.

That beautiful English Princess was the reason so many commanders in the ECW gained experience in the TYW. A lot of them, from both sides, went there for her.

Finish Wedgewood, read Wilson next. That sadly will be just about it for the TYW in English.

I think the reason for its reputation is the lack of competition. Its dated but its not bad.

Finish Wedgewood, read Wilson next. That sadly will be just about it for the TYW in English.

Don't forget Geoffrey Parker's book – link – that would be my favourite.

I also enjoyed Polisensky – link – but that's a translation, IIRC from the Czech, rather than an Englis original.

There are certainly more books on the TYW in English than Wilson and Wedgewood. GurKhan has already mentioned Parker's work, allowing for it's age it's main drawback is that it is too short .

Books that cover the entire war are far and few between in any language simply because the subject is almost impossible to cover for a single author due to the sheer size and lenght of the war(s). Wilson uses almost 1000 pages but still has more than a few gaps in his coverage.

But books & academic works focusing on parts of TYW history are a lot more common even in English. You have the works by Michael Roberts that focused on Gustavus Adolphus and the rise of Sweden as a great power during the TYW. Golo Mann's biography of Wallenstein was translated into English and Geoff Mortimer has written a recent volume on Wallenstein as well. David Parrot has written a thick and somewhat dry book on the French army of Richelieu and the easily overlooked "The Bussiness of War" which looks at the use of military enterprisers and looks a lot at the the later TYW from that viewpoint including a study of the operational effectiveness of those armies that effectivly challenges some old views with new and solid research.

Other specialised researchers are Steve Murdoch and Alexia Grosjean who have made indepth studies in the Scottish connection to Sweden and the TYW. Their works include the recent jointly authored "Alexander Leslie and the Scottish Generals of the Thirty Years' War, 1618–1648 "

Isn't her ECW book in three volumes?

I would also recommend Thomas Barker The Military Intellectual and Battle: Raimondo Montecuccoli and the Thirty Years War (1975). It provides the only English translation of Montecuccoli's Sulle Battaglie (Concerning Battle) as well as a brief biography of Montecuccolli and a description of the four major battles in which he participated.

For the Danish Period of the TYW there is Paul Lockhart, Denmark in the Thirty Years' War, 1618-1648: King Christian IV and the Decline of the Oldenburg State (1996).

Note that both of these books may be titles one wants to interlibrary loan as they are going for around $300 USD to $400 USD on Amazon.

Amazon regularly puts ridiculous prices on out of print works, Abebooks is a more usefull source for oop books, a bit of searching turned up a copy of Barker's book for only $40 USD
link

Lots of interesting titles here.Speaking of other books how would you rate Osprey's books on 30 years war? Think these were the first I've read (Imperial Armies, Sweden Army, etc) together with Delbruck "History of wars"…

The Ospreys about the Imperial army are indeed of low quality for the very reasons already mentioned. While not technical bad the full colour images in the middle of the books suffer from the same lack of research, many are simply copies of mannequins found in the Army museum in Wien or of drawings found in other works. Little evidence of any original research, period military paintings by artists like Snayers & Vrancx have been thoroughly ignored as have the written sources.

The 2 volumes about the army of Gustavus Adolphus written by Richard Brzezinski are far superior in quality. Very good as far as organisation, equipment, clothing and flags are concerned. The parts about tactics are a bit more mixed IMHO. The author is quite right to put Swedish developments in an European context rather than being something dreamt up in isolation, he alos correctly emphasises the use of combined arms and the focus on firepower, however while he is correct to challenge the old view of Swedish cavalry as revolutionary super troops he does go to far in the other direction and exaggerates their inferiority in a way that is not supported by the sources.
There is also a bit too much focus on the native Swedes & Finns and the size of their horses when evaluating the performance of the Swedish cavalry and not enough focus on the Germans who were the majority of the cavalry by the time of the invasion of Germany.

Brzezinski's book about the battle of Lützen 1632 is not as good as his first two book. While no where nears as bad as the Imperil Army books by Brnardic it does suffer from problems with how sources are used and quoted.

You can find my review of the Osprey about Pike & Shot tactics here: TMP link

Hello Daniel,

Can you recommend some recent books in languages other than English? In German, which I can slowly read, I have Engerisser and Hrncirik's Nordlingen 1864 as well as the latter's Spanier auf dem Albuch. Pappenheim's campaign in northern Germany in 1632 has always interested me and I have considered obtaining Barbara Stadler's book on Pappenheim. In Swedish there is, of course. Sveriges Krig, of which I have a binder of photocopied pages. But what I would really like is a study of tactics and the organization of infantry and cavalry and their tactics, especially at the level of the kleiner Krieg.

I read Wedgewood's about five years ago. A little dense, but I enjoyed it a lot.

Unfortunately that kind of study does not exists, and particularly not for the "small war" which is not well documented. While there have been some studies of organisation such as Parrot & Kapser they tend to be focused on a fairly high level while tactics as a subject is still pretty taboo for Academics. Those authors that do cover tactics such as Lynn do so as part of much wider studies whose focus is much broader. One has to hunt for bits and pieces in published secondary sources or turn to primary sources in order to do the research in person.

The later can be fun but time consuming, I have been working for years on the subject and still find myself look for that "final" piece of the puzzle. (Of course once I find the piece it turns out that it is not so "final" at all and the hunt begins again)

Some good reads that are not too full of academic German (which at least I find a bit heavy and dry to read).

"1636 -Ihre Letzte Schlacht", published by the Brandenburg Landesmuseum this book covers the battle of Wittstock and the mass grave that was recently discovered near the battle site, it tells the story of the battle and the men who fell based on the extensive battlefield archeology carried out there by German archeologists. My main complaint is that some of the very interesting maps & iamges are repoduce only in small format. Well worth the 18 Euros.

""Der du gelehrt hast meine Hände den Krieg" ,Tilly Heiliger oder Kriegsverbrecher?" The companion book for the large Tilly exhibition held in Altötting in 2007. Marcus Junkelmann was the editor and also contributed several of the articles in the book which also contains essay by other noted perid scholars such as Michael Kaiser. Sometimes Rudolf Saller is listed as the author but that is a case of mistaken identity as Saller did another book for the same exhibition.
The best part of the book is Junkelmann's essay on Tilly military career and the military revolution.

"Jan von Werth" by Helmut Lahrkamp, from 1962 but despite it's age easily found at a decent price if you look at sites like Zvab.com A good introduction to a an important commander who has often been overlooked by English language works. Also provides a good deal of information about the later campaigns of the Bavarian army in which Werth served.

Hello Daniel,

Thank you for these titles; the Wittstock book especially looks interesting. Thank you too for pointing out that Saller has also written a book with the same name as the one you recommend. I came across the Saller book on display at the army museum in Ingolstadt several years ago and decided it was not a source I needed.

I was quite certain no book specifically on tactics exited. Academically, tactics seem to be a dead end unless they can be integrated into a larger study. This can sometimes produce some very curious conclusions, such as M D Feld's characterization of the Dutch use of the counter-march as a form of "continuous production".

If you have $137.00 USD you might like "Die Kursachsen im Dreißigjährigen Krieg" by Roland Sennewald This is a 680 page coffee table size book with hundreds of color illustrations, OOBs, etc. It covers much more than just the Saxon army. Also included at that price is an accompanying book on Saxon flags with 200 photos and drawings. Available through Amazon.

Here's another that I really like. Nice large tome, very well illustrated, and pretty cheap. A translation, but I find it easy to read and fascinating.
link