OCEdwards | 14 Feb 2015 6:57 a.m. PST |
You saw the title. Now argue about it so I can make a decision on what to buy/play! I own F&F already, if it helps. Thanks, Owen |
Pictors Studio | 14 Feb 2015 7:03 a.m. PST |
I like Fire and Fury. The one thing we change when we play it is we roll 2d10 and average them. I would also recommend giving Black Powder a shot. We love playing this game and with the rules for commanders you can give them a little bit of personality without shoehorning the model into some pretty awful and arbitrary choices. Since I got Black Powder every I read some ACW book I think about how this commander or that commander would have the High Aggression trait or the Low Independence trait. Plus the game is pretty scale-less so you can do it at Regimental or Brigade size without much ado about the rules changing. |
MajorB | 14 Feb 2015 7:14 a.m. PST |
rules for 10mm ACW Rules are pretty much figure size agnostic. |
OCEdwards | 14 Feb 2015 7:17 a.m. PST |
Eh, not entirely, but I'll take your view on board ;). Thanks Pictors Studio – flexible game size/scale is really useful, so you can go from Dranesville to Gettysburg with one set. |
John Leahy | 14 Feb 2015 7:21 a.m. PST |
It depends on what level of combat you want. Large scale I like Altar of Freedom. Lower scale I love Field of Battle! |
MajorB | 14 Feb 2015 7:25 a.m. PST |
Eh, not entirely, but I'll take your view on board ;). Well apart from skirmish (1 figure = 1 man) rules, I grant you (although that is in fact why I said "pretty much"), but it's a widely held viewpoint amongst the grognards. |
Dynaman8789 | 14 Feb 2015 7:35 a.m. PST |
Yup, rules are figure size agnostic. Usually switching CM/Inches covers it and if not printing a custom ruler does the trick. If you like the Lardies style of rules than They Can't Hit an Elephant is a good set. |
MajorB | 14 Feb 2015 7:36 a.m. PST |
Here's a useful list of possible rules to consider: link and here's a few more (and these are free): link |
OCEdwards | 14 Feb 2015 7:42 a.m. PST |
That's a great list, thanks. I'm still not convinced by the other point, though. DBR, for instance, doesn't scale distances entirely evenly to figure sizes; it's not the only set like that. And some sets patently fit some scales better – sets that flourish for very big battles may scale evenly, but logistically suit smaller scales better. I don't deny that nearly all sets are easily adapted, by the way. |
Buckeye AKA Darryl | 14 Feb 2015 7:51 a.m. PST |
Another vote for Fire and Fury, although you would need to buy TWO sets to pull off small to large battles. Basic FnF is for brigade sized units being the smallest element, while RFnF uses the regiment and is 1/4th the figure scale of FnF. With 10mm figures you could add a figure or two to the basic 15mm stand and give your units a more complete look. |
MajorB | 14 Feb 2015 9:02 a.m. PST |
DBR, for instance, doesn't scale distances entirely evenly to figure sizes; No set of rules that I know of does that. The figures are always grossly oversized compared to the groundscale. DBR, like most of the DBx series games uses 40mm wide bases for 15mm figures and 60mm wide bases for 25/28mm figures. That being said though, there is no reason at all why you can't (for example) put 6mm figures on a 60mm wide base, or even 25/28mm figures on a 40mm wode base – the game will still work. Effectively, any game where the figures are mounted on bases as opposed to individually means that you can just fit as many figures of your chosen sie onto the bases and the game will work fine. sets that flourish for very big battles may scale evenly, but logistically suit smaller scales better. I wasn't referring to the size (number of units) of the battle, merely to the size of figures you use. |
Dan 055 | 14 Feb 2015 9:14 a.m. PST |
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OCEdwards | 14 Feb 2015 9:19 a.m. PST |
Well obviously we're not discussing literal proportionality, as you recognize by your next paragraph – but equally I'm obviously not interested in putting 1 6mm block on 2 and a half inch base. So the more complex form of what I was asking originally was: "In terms of a figure size (10mm) when based proportionally and not put on (for instance) an 80mm base, which sets of rules would you recommend, especially given 10mm particularly suits being able to play larger battles?" (Which some people have addressed, including the list you put up, for which I'm grateful.) |
OCEdwards | 14 Feb 2015 9:33 a.m. PST |
Dan 055, there are some interesting concepts in that – really enjoyed having a read. Not sure about divisional rout though! |
kustenjaeger | 14 Feb 2015 9:57 a.m. PST |
Greetings For RF&F I am basing 4 10mm infantry figures abreast on a 25mm x 15mm base, so keeping standard width. Longstreet or similar can either be used with single rank bases or double based. Regards Edward |
MajorB | 14 Feb 2015 10:02 a.m. PST |
but equally I'm obviously not interested in putting 1 6mm block on 2 and a half inch base. Neither is anyone elase. The idea is that you fit onto the base the number of figures that you think "looks good". In terms of a figure size (10mm) when based proportionally Not sure what you mean by "when based proportionally"? |
OCEdwards | 14 Feb 2015 10:03 a.m. PST |
Thanks for the advice kustenjaeger! |
ACWBill | 14 Feb 2015 10:17 a.m. PST |
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MajorB | 14 Feb 2015 10:28 a.m. PST |
especially given 10mm particularly suits being able to play larger battles?" OK, so what I think you are really looking for then is a set of rules where the emphasis is geared towards larger battles – grand tactical rather than tactical. That is a different question and entirely unrelated to the size of the figures in use. For example, I have a homegrown set of grand tactical ACW rules in which each 30mm wide base represents a brigade. Now I happen to have 15mm figures mounted 2 to a 30mm wide base. But the rules would work fine with say 4 10mm figures on each base or 8 6mm figures. It would probably be a push to use larger figures though. It's the size of the base that matters, not the number of figures on it. |
CATenWolde | 14 Feb 2015 12:05 p.m. PST |
I think you're looking at this backwards. One of the great things about 10mm figures (and 6mm) is that you can create your own basing scheme to fit the look you want – i.e, you can find a balance between the number of figures and their frontage and the "look" you want to achieve, and then fit that into any rules' basing system. For instance, I use an admittedly idiosyncratic basing system, but it works well for several popular rules. I mount 3x 10mm figures in a single rank on a 15mm square base – obviously, they are the mid to smaller 10mm figures, and they are tightly shoulder to shoulder. I can sabot two of them side-by-side (30mm frontage) to play RF&F, which normally calls for 2x 1" bases one behind the other – that way I get a strongly linear look, which I like. I can also sabot five of them on a 75mm frontage to play V&B and other brigade level rules. Cheers, Christopher |
138SquadronRAF | 14 Feb 2015 12:47 p.m. PST |
Rifle Wars from Jeff Knutson (War Artisan on TMP). |
KTravlos | 14 Feb 2015 12:56 p.m. PST |
I like Altar of Freedom. Black Powder gives good games, especially at the divisional level. Big Bloody Battles is not ACW specific, but also can easily be tweaked to offer a great grant tactical experience. |
ernieR | 14 Feb 2015 8:37 p.m. PST |
we've been playing Longstreet from Sam Mustafa link it's great game , playable in about 3 hours including setup and tear down . also the campaign system is excellent and easily done in 30 minutes at the pub after the game :) no idea how it compares with anything else for historical accuracy . |
Frostie | 14 Feb 2015 11:18 p.m. PST |
I am doing 10mm ACW armies and I intend to use Black Powder as I like the way they give a good fun game. |
Last Hussar | 17 Feb 2015 2:55 p.m. PST |
If using 10mm you don't have to switch from inches to cm if you don't want to. For instance my 10mm is based on 30mm square for most portability between systems: F&F quotes 1"1/8 by 7/8th (why Arty, WHY?) which is 29mm by 22 – close enough, Peter Pig ACW is 30mm, TFL 'Elephant' is somewhere in the inch range – If you accept battle frontages will never be textbook it works fine. We Play They Couldn't Hit an elephant as written, just with hit markers rather than figure removal. My F&F bases are no different to the 15mm ones in the rules, except I have 7-8 men per base, not 3-4. Black powder I can play as written in inches, and use 8 bases, or read as cm, and use 4 bases per unit. Unless you have a set of rules where figure and ground scale are identical, what you are doing by using smaller figures is getting more mass. You don't base the same numbers – you put more in the same area. If you want to save money you can use cm instead of inches – this also makes your table 2.5 times bigger in all directions. We did a WSS game BP using 10mm and cm's – the 12 x 4 table was equivalent to 30 x 10 if we'd used inches! Also its still cheaper. BP gives a figure footprint for 25mm of 20mm square. On that base I can get 2 rows of 3 10mm, at a cost of 90 pence, 2/3rd (or less) of the price of 28mm metal |
Old Pete | 17 Feb 2015 4:03 p.m. PST |
Try out the free rules on the Charge website. |
Axebreaker | 17 Feb 2015 7:01 p.m. PST |
Regimental or Brigade Fire and Fury. I've been playing F&F for so long it's my go to ACW rule set. That said Field of Battle would work well and give a fun game. Black Powder would also work well with some adjustments. Truth be told most ACW rule sets can be played at all scales so your pretty spoiled for choice. Christopher |
cwbuff | 18 Feb 2015 7:00 a.m. PST |
Johnny Reb works well with 10mm. If I did not have so many 15s I would go with 10mm. |
Aspern1809 | 18 Feb 2015 6:31 p.m. PST |
There are many great options! Across A Deadly Field (I'm building 10mm Shiloh at the moment), Johnny Reb, Regimental Fire and Fury, Volley and Bayonet. All are great sets of rules! |
Rudysnelson | 19 Feb 2015 8:03 a.m. PST |
Bill Moreno always runs some great 10mm ACW games. You might check and see what he uses. (ACWBill on here) |