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"To Batten or Not to Batten? - Foam Terrain Boards" Topic


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Wargamer Dave12 Feb 2015 2:32 p.m. PST

Getting back into the hobby and gearing up to make some terrain boards. I'll be doing 2' x 2' squares.

I've read the excellent Quindia Studios guides and just reread the great tutorial in WI #268 (Arnhem Bridge board)

Both of those recommend building a wood frame around the MDF base that the pink foam is attached to. Curiously, the Quindia tutorial has the battens on top whereas the WI one has them on the bottom.

And alternatively, I notice that the Perry brothers and others don't even bother with the MDF base board.

My concern would be that the foam would warp if not attached to something, but perhaps you can enlighten me that this is not the case?

Cheers,
Dave

redbanner414512 Feb 2015 2:51 p.m. PST

It won't warp but the corners and edges will get dinged with rough handling.

foxweasel12 Feb 2015 2:54 p.m. PST

Is it the pink insulation board (2'x 4'x about 3 inch) that you are using?. If it is, you don't need any reinforcement. Even if you carve rivers into it, as long as it's on a flat surface it won't warp. That's what my table is made up of, anything else I can't help. You can get 1 inch and 2 inch thick, may be a bit less rigid.

Wargamer Dave12 Feb 2015 3:13 p.m. PST

Thanks chaps.

In the WI tutorial they recommended wrapping cloth tape around the edge and then gluing 2mm thick card. I saw another tutorial online – TerranScapes on YouTube in which he was using polystyrene sheets on the edges. Seemed like a lot of work!

I was planning on the 2" thick foam – Home Depot actually sells pre-cut squares so easy-peasy. Where do you get the 3" thick stuff? That sounds nice and solid.

foxweasel12 Feb 2015 3:42 p.m. PST

Actually, looking at it now, it's the 2 inch stuff I've got. It is very rigid and if you can get it pre-cut that's even better. Redbanner said it may get dents in it, this is possible (especially from other people who aren't as careful as you) but only if you really badly treat it. I painted mine with some thick paint them layered it with neat pva before adding the flock, this hardens it up even more. You could glue thin plasticard on each side, but I don't think that's really necessary.

McWong7312 Feb 2015 3:56 p.m. PST

Definitely tape the sides.

Mako1112 Feb 2015 6:08 p.m. PST

BATTEN DOWN THE, oh…….you're talking terrain boards, not hatches.

Might be a good idea to protect the corners from dings, and crushing.

I was thinking of using thin, styrene sheeting, as mentioned above, since it is very lightweight, and durable.

Chris Wimbrow13 Feb 2015 4:17 a.m. PST

From past discussions I've gotten the impression that foam insulation thickness availability can be related to your average climate conditions. A Florida Home Depot might have only the thinnest sheets.

warhawkwind13 Feb 2015 10:05 a.m. PST

One inch thick pink or blue insulation foam wont warp too bad if its 2 foot square. The problem I've had was cutting long, narrow hills, like 12 inches long by 3 inches wide. The warping comes from the PVA glue (Elmer's Glue)used to adhere the flocking, and then used to seal the flocking. If you do have a problem, try spreading some glue on the bottom of your board. It should counter the warp on the top side.

Some people say you can seal flocking with cheap hairspray, but I found that too much will turn frosty if rubbed or scuffed.

If you're gonna be transporting your boards around then yeah, put some thin plastic on the edges.

By the way, Mel "The Terrain Tutor" just put out a video on this very issue. He tested spray-on Adhesive. You might want to watch it. Its in two parts.

Have fun!

Borathan13 Feb 2015 11:26 a.m. PST

Actually, a friend of mine and I worked out a very different method for some better looking terrain boards thanks to some properly sized picture frames of the right size that were on sale locally.

They had a nice, sturdy back board that we reinforced the connection to the frame after stripping the glass and boarders while adding a few small nails into the interior for reinforcing.

Then we took masking tape along the top of the frame to protect the look of it and filled the interior with spray foam. Then cut down the foam level with the frame and worked from there for the rest of it.

We used a coat of wood glue to hold the flock down and watered down glue to seal it along with using a spray glue to attach some decent looking felt to the bottom of it.

The end result actually looks fantastic as a display piece, almost like the fancier chess sets, and can be left out on a normal table or be transported around easily.

Helps keep his wife from commenting on having the other boards on the furniture when we take breaks, and actually looks like it might be a piece of art of its own to some extent.

Personal logo Sgt Slag Supporting Member of TMP13 Feb 2015 11:38 a.m. PST

Low temperature Hot Glue Guns work very well on insulation foam, for gluing it. The High temperature Glue Guns are much too hot, melting the foam sheet, giving off fumes. Apply it around the edges, and press it down onto the base material. The advantage of Hot Glue is that it fully sets within 30-40 seconds.

The Low temperature Hot Glue has a working time of around 10-15 seconds; the High temperature Hot Glue has double the working time, but… Cheers!

Wargamer Dave13 Feb 2015 2:46 p.m. PST

Borathan – pics or it never happened. ;-)

Borathan13 Feb 2015 5:37 p.m. PST

Dave, I've been looking for a nice frame to use in making one for myself, don't have pictures of the ones made with my friend (and he's out of town for a while, but I'm hoping to do the one for myself as a tutorial when I find a frame I like…probably handling it next month.

Only real downside to it is that you cannot put two boards next to each other for a larger playing surface without adding things to bridge the gap

Wargamer Dave13 Feb 2015 5:57 p.m. PST

Yeah that makes it unworkable for what I have in mind. I am looking to do 2' x 2' boards that are modular. They have to get VERY close to each other in a seamless way.

The upside on the wood sides (battens) is that you have a perfectly flat surface – same on the styrene sheet sides. But it just sounds like a ton of fiddly work. Cloth tape – which I don't even know what that is – seems like a much simpler approach.

And then I see all these beautiful boards over in sunny England that have no MDF bases and seemingly nothing on the sides. So I'm a confused puppy.

Mad Guru15 Feb 2015 4:07 a.m. PST

Wargamer Dave,

I'm going to ramble on for a while because about five years ago I was in a similar situation to the one you're in now, about to embark on building my first set of terrain boards, and back then I went one way -- and now, five years later, when making additional boards, I went the other, so I think I'm in a good position to give you some hopefully helpful info…

Five years ago I opted to go for basing my 2" thick blue styrofoam boards on 3/16" Masonite. Don't ask why 3/16", as there was not much of an answer beyond happenstance. In retrospect I would have been better off using either 1/4" or 1/2" -- 1/4" because it's more easily available or 1/2" because the increased thickness would have helped maintain "structural integrity" of the boards over the long haul.

On the other hand -- and this also comes into play with regard to your original question of whether or not to frame your boards with wooden battens or other simple molding -- there is the question of WEIGHT.

By using only Masonite or MDF baseboards without battens, you will keep the weight down.

I'm a little confused by what you said about the WI version, as the only reason I can see to use wood frames on a terrain board is to surround the foam itself with the wood and thereby protect it from potential damage.

The six 6'x2' boards I built back in 2010 are all still in pretty good shape. They have travelled to 3 or 4 conventions over the intervening years and also moved with my family and I to a new house, a process that saw them moved multiple times from storage place to storage place before I finally managed to "bring them home"! They survived all that without battens or other wood framing -- but as already mentioned by someone above, they suffered some wear and tear around some of their edges which required me to make small repairs from time to time.

Over the past half year or so I've been building several new boards, all of which hold river-sections. For these I opted to use wood frames. Similar to you I got my first detailed info on how to build terrain boards from the incredibly talented Clarence Harrison's excellent "Quindia Studios" site, and I remember he suggested using battens to protect your boards. For my new river boards I ended up using inexpensive 3/4" thick molding that was a little wider than 2" before I ripped it down to size.

The 3 river boards I've built -- two 2'x2' and one 6'x2' -- with wood frames are nice but they are also much heavier than my original boards. This may or may not be an issue for you, depending on how much travel you expect to do with your boards. On the other hand, the wood frames will serve to protect the foam edges from almost any damage at all.

As far as the work required goes, if you know how to counter-sink screws, I predict you will have no problem putting the frames on the baseboard yourself. If you don't have access to wood-shop power-tools at home or at a friend's place, you should be able to have the pieces cut down to size at the lumber yard where you buy them.

Looking at my boards now, I would say it was not a mistake when I chose not to frame them in wood when I built them. They have served me very well and survived intact, not perfectly so, but still looking good, for the past four-and-a-half years -- but if I had not based them on Masonite or MDF boards, I don't think that would have been the case. They would have been so light and so easily shifted around, I think they would have gone flying off some of the various tables they've been set down on. In my own humble opinion it's kind of like having beautifully painted figures not based on anything but the tiny base they were cast with. If you are going to invest the time, effort and expense required to turn your foam boards into nice looking terrain boards, I suggest it would be worth it to spend a little more time and effort on basing the boards themselves.

If you do so, the question is how thick the baseboards should be. As I said already, I think my own 3/16" baseboards are too thin. I think half-inch would be best, as it would make warping of any sort almost impossible and make your boards virtually immortal, but half-inch thick bases would also be expensive and add a great deal of weight. So maybe 1/4" would be a good compromise. Thick enough to prevent most warping but not super heavy or super expensive.

@Warhawkwind: one possible solution to the warping of your long and thin foam hill would be to cut a piece of 1/4" or 1/8" Masonite or MDF to use for a baseboard and glue it down. That's what I do for my foam hills, which I have built in various shapes and sizes, and I've never had a problem with any of them warping.

Here's a pic of the 6'x2' river board I built recently. I haven't poured the resin yet so it's still not finished, but the lines around its edges are probably just a little bit cleaner and sharper than my earlier boards were -- not much, but a little…

picture

Wargamer Dave: whatever you end up doing, I wish you the very best of luck with building your boards. They are a big and potentially complex project to tackle, but once done they are a gift that keeps on giving to you and anyone lucky enough to play with you atop what will no doubt be some truly great looking terrain!

EDIT: Dave, re-reading your original post, I realize you don't have to worry too much about the "weight" issue, since you plan on making 2'x2' boards. This also means the wood-working needed to fasten wood frames -- if you choose to use them -- won't require all that much space.

Wargamer Dave15 Feb 2015 8:25 a.m. PST

MadGuru – thanks so much for your long and detailed reply! I truly appreciate it.

Regarding the WI article – he attached the battens to the bottom of the MDF to "reinforce" it as he says. He then attached 2mm card to the sides and wrapped the whole thing in cloth tape. My guess is that this allowed him to prevent warping and stand his boards upright during storage – but also helped them get closer to each other on the tabletop.

For me in looking at all this, the downside of the battens is that with pink foam already available as 2' wide pieces, you will have to cut the foam down further to fit it between the battens (which will take up 1 1/2" or so So your interior foam area will end up being 22 1/2" wide.

That said the look of a beautifully finished edge on the board is hard to resist!

Weight wise I don't care that much. These will be used 99.999% in my home and stored under the game table.

I'm really torn. I might go with a modified version of your first method to get the project rolling and have something to show in less time and then adjust accordingly after living with them awhile and put the pink foam directly onto 1/2" MDF bases but leave the battens off for now.

I'm going to look into the cloth tape as well for finishing the edges and try to get them to have a similar look as the wood edges.

I'll report back as I get going, but will probably have more questions before that!

Thanks again!

Early morning writer15 Feb 2015 9:24 a.m. PST

May offer a simple way to prevent those carved foam hill bases? Just get some artists board and gut a 'base' to match and glue that base to the hill. The artist board can be quite thin and still be effective. Just be sure you have full contact between the board and the foam. I had pieces that lasted over twenty years with never any warping.

Of course, now I use self-made terrain mats and all wooden hills in at least two levels to prevent any warping – and be sure I store them flat. And for rivers and roads I use latex products, some commercial, some self-made. Allows tremendous versatility of setup – and no seams! (except between river and road sections)

But the best made terrain boards are pretty stunning to look at.

Wargamer Dave15 Feb 2015 9:31 a.m. PST

Here's another terrain building tutorial I found. Not much on the boards themselves but some great planning and techniques:

link

Mad Guru15 Feb 2015 7:58 p.m. PST

Wargamer Dave: you should use whatever method you think is right for building your boards, but if the one thing keeping you from using wood frames for your boards is the need to trim your 2'sq boards down 1-1/2" on two perpendicular sides, I have to tell you it's really not difficult or very time-consuming to do using a large and sharp kitchen knife.

You can do it free-hand or if you're like me and more obsessive-compulsive all you need to build your own jig is a pair of clamps and two straight-edges -- could be lengths of inexpensive "Hobby Board" or a pair of metal yardsticks or anything similar, as seen here…

picture

PS I think using 1/2" thick MDF for your baseboards is a GREAT idea and will allow them to pretty much last forever without any warping whatsoever!

Wargamer Dave16 Feb 2015 11:06 a.m. PST

Thanks again MadGuru – yes I guess looking at that it doesn't seem to be that big of a deal! I foresee a LOT of terrain building in the near future!

Also in an attempt to keep a lot of good info all in one thread. I was just perusing the incredible terrain boards built by Captain Blood on the Lead Adventure forum. This is just amazing stuff and he is kind enough to lay out the step-by-steps as well:

link

Here's a taste:

picture

Wargamer Dave16 Feb 2015 1:06 p.m. PST

By the way I just have to share this. I guess I've been thinking about wargames terrain too much. Last night I had a "nightmare" (if you can call it that) that I had created some bocage hedgerows and when I woke up in the morning all four corners had curled up like a boat on each one!

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