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"Papal Line Infantry and Dragoons" Topic


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939 hits since 12 Feb 2015
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mossdocking Inactive Member12 Feb 2015 9:40 a.m. PST

I've finally got my first unit of Line infantry painted up and a Squadron of Papal Dragoons using Irregular 25mm figures, they can be viewed on
tonystoysoldiers.blogspot.co.uk

KTravlos Supporting Member of TMP12 Feb 2015 9:44 a.m. PST

Very workmanlike!

Green Tiger Supporting Member of TMP13 Feb 2015 4:10 a.m. PST

Nice – Really should get some … In fact I really should finish my Indian Mutiny.

Robert Burke13 Feb 2015 11:22 a.m. PST

2017 will be the 150th anniversary of the Battle of Mentana. The Papal army had to be rescued by French forces intervening against the Garibaldini. It was the first time the French Chassepot rifle had been used in battle. The surviving Garibaldini described the Chassepot as sounding like "rolling thunder."

I'm giving serious thought to painting up all three forces and putting on the battle at a Convention in 2017.

ITALWARS Supporting Member of TMP13 Feb 2015 2:14 p.m. PST

Robert Burke i'm very glad about your interest in the battle of Mentana…as some of this forum menbers, with whom i had the pleasure to correspond, know i 'm reasearching every aspect of this particular battle from more than 30 years..and i'm always happy to share my findings and material with others fans of the Risorgimento in the South..above all if from abroad..
My almost complete Armies for Mentana (90% Pontifical/French, 50% Red Shirts) are on 28mm scale including castings from Mirliton (strongly sugested and almost complete and specific range), Foundry, Dixon and would like to have a try at new Irregular ones..I had the luck to gather also rare sources and to live quite close to the battlefield…(obviously changed but giving, at first glance, an explication of the particularity of this battle)
As regards the famous legend of "Les chassepots ont fait des merveilles"..which explain many superficial thoughts about this battle reported in the majority of divulgative text..i can add ..thanks to my cross references evidences and readings the following about the main cause of the Red Shirt débacle:
- Garibaldi' s Army at Mentana was composed, at least on the day of the battle, by the remaining scum of volunteers..demotivated, badly led, without good equipment..certainly not the volunteers who, succesfully, fought in 1859 and 1866 Vs the Austrians
- The man itself..certainly, contrary to popular belief, an overvalued leader..conducted the battle in his wors manner, from behind and was the first to fly leaving his few die hards alone VS the Pontifical Ajust Army.
- The Battle was almost exclusivly won by the Pontifical Army alone..the French of the Fally where ampered by strict engaging orders from Napoleon Le Petit and enter the fray at the end..once the timid Red Shirt line had been broken and already outflanked by the Zouaves and the Légion d'Antibes (French in Pontifical Service) ..the majority of victims at the end the majority of Garibaldini's casualties had'nt been caused by the Chassepots..also the French Line and Chasseurs only recently equipped with Chassepot where'nt already sufficiently trained with the weapon and the tactict/formation required to better use it..many casualties including wounded Red Shirts recovered or cared in Rome, after the battle, by the Pontifical Medical Service showed principally head wounds ..implying the tendency, reported by some observers, of firing high by the untrained French infantry…
last consideration..contrary to the majority of so called liberal revolution..in this case the Red Shirts were seen by the Lazio and Rome population only a kind of foreign invasors or bandits…while the whole city (above all the popular classes) supported the Army of the Pope….
happy to furnish, in case of need, any specifical info for a wargame representation/uniforms ecc…..

Robert Burke15 Feb 2015 8:13 p.m. PST

I'd love to exchange sources with you, especially uniform information. You can contact me directly at Burker1 (at) aol (dot) com.

Tirailleur corse16 Feb 2015 4:55 a.m. PST

My wife's family had an uncle priest and NCO with the Pontifical Zouaves.
The family had several artefacts which were shared between the family.
One uncle got his Mentana's cross, the ribbon being lost, and we herited of a very interesting album of photographs showing him along with some of his fellows wearing uniforms and accoutrments.
I have not them at hand, but if this can be of any interest for one of you I can scann them.
Unfortunatly, this will have to wait till my next stay in their family house, most probably in april …
Cheers.

ITALWARS Supporting Member of TMP16 Feb 2015 5:03 a.m. PST

Mr Burke
i'll contact you..it'll be a pleasure for me to talk about that topic and, if possible, furnish any help for that representation on Mentana…my mail on the following paragraph

Tirailleur Corse je suis tré interessé a vos photos….
thanks so much…my mail being: ital.wars@libero.it
I suppose you have all the sources ..but, in case you need, i may look trough my Italian ones..and some very rare French/Belgian ones ..myabe i can found mention of your family menber battle activity with the Zouaves..
cheers

ITALWARS Supporting Member of TMP16 Feb 2015 5:24 a.m. PST

Mossdocking
now i'm a regular visitor of your blog
very well painted mins..i understand you made an accurate research for the Pontifical and Neapolitan Armies..and it'sn an easy task.the evidence of your dedicated work are also the flags of which info is scarce…me too want to have a try with those Irregular minis…some look nice some less
Thanks to share with your game and pictorial achievments…i should learn (but it seems difficult for me) how to post o pict or better how to run a blog and try to do something similar…

Tirailleur corse16 Feb 2015 8:24 a.m. PST

Ciao Italwars!

The name of my wife's uncle was Henri de Noyer du Roure.

For what does appear on the photos, as far as I can recall, he wears a Zouave's NCO uniform with three chevrons on the shielves.
The muscket is muzzle loading with a saber-bayonet.

This gentleman was discharged from the Pontifical Zouaves along many of his comrades after the defeat of 1870.
They returned to France to join the newly raised "Armée pour le Défense Nationale" which fought the Prussians in the last stage of the war.
All those former zouaves, whom many were priests (!),joined a royalist corps, "Les volontaires de Charette". Charette beeing a royalist leader of the french revolution who fought and ploted against the Republic and was sentenced to death and executed.

The uncle Henri has been wounded during that campaign, went back home but never recovered from his wounds and died on the following year (1872).

Unfortunatly, beside of the Mentana cross and that booklet I'm gonna scann for you, I found nothing else about the Pontifical Zouaves in the drawers.
Guess that he could have been buried in his Zouave's uniform ??

There is also a portrait, oil painting, in uniform with the kepi, I shall photographit for you.

My wife's family is a very old family with many military ascendance and I exhumed treasures nobody was interested with from their cellar.

For my sons happiness as they got the addiction!

brunet Inactive Member09 Mar 2015 12:32 p.m. PST

I like these figures. Must take a look at Irregular

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