"AWI from Scratch" Topic

If I want to start AWI from scratch, what rules would you suggest ?

Two caveats – I plan to go 15mm, and I don't especially like the Black Powder system – although I might use the source book as a reference.

TIA

Try Peter Pig's Washington's Army Great figures and a reliable stable of wargames. Martin does tend to make everything you need for the games (markers, casualties etc.) so it is a reliable from scratch option …

Good luck

Phil

'Maurice' from Sam Mustafa is very good. There is a free 'lite' version on his Honour website, including the cards you'll need.

Piquet Cartouche or Field of Battle. The former gives more of swing in capabilities and second is tighter. Depending on your taste both are very good. A bit of a learning curve mainly due to it's unusual gaming approach, but once grasped which isn't that long gives a very exciting game.

British Grenadier gives a very nice simulation of the period, but I have say the play is on the slow side and the combat has quite a few steps to resolve giving some odd results at times.

Maurice has been mentioned and is very fun, however it truly works best for WSS and SYW. Don't get me wrong it works quite well with AWI, but best imho with the other two and periods like it due to how the armies are played in the rules.

Christopher

Maurice or Peter Pig might be the way to go.

I stronly recommend Guns of Liberty by Eric Burgess. You can contact him here to purchase them:

link

DAF's freebies…

TMP link

An excellent set of rules (with some good background) is the new set by Joe Krone, Land of the Free. An Osprey title (available as a hard-back or pdf). I believe it is also available from Wargames Vault as well (pdf). Has everything you need for the early wars in America with a focus on the AWI. Points system, generic and historic battles are in there to (lots of scenarios in fact). Any basing system works, as any scale of models (I play 15mm).

Guthroth, I should also probably add that I myself am starting out (FINALLY) my AWI project. Like you this is pretty much from scratch. I am going to be doing it in 15mm with a focus on large sized units (double ranked 6 figures per stand).

To be honest, I love the LotF rules (I mentioned above), but I do want to explore some others before deciding on a good "go to" set. At the moment top on my list is LotF, BP, Maurice, and British Grenadier. There are of course others. I find that LotF is an excellent resource with all the scenarios it has. You can also fight battles of ANY size (although it seems in large battles with many units the game might slow a tad). Out of all the rules I have seen so far, LotF (and perhaps British Grenadier) contain the most information and background on the AWI. I think they are an excellent choice if starting out. LotF has a slight advantage as it also is much easier to have a pick -up game (since there are points and generic scenarios). BG take some preparation.

Good luck!

Kurtus

That's easy: Guns of Liberty – we have played it for years and are playing it again tonight.

Volley and Bayonet at Battalion level.

Yet another to attest to Guns of Liberty. Excellent rules for this period, easy to learn, fun and fast to play.

And lots of ranges to choose from these days in 15 mm Polly Oliver is back, Peter Pig, Musket Miniatures (my choice), Stone Mountain – all of which are compatible. Or you can go larger with Blue Moon. I used a lot of QRF Seven Years War mounted and foot figures to build my cavalry with matching dismounts – may not be perfect but in 15 mm I don't think its too far off.

British Grenadier is the best set of AWI rules I have come across in 30+ years of wargaming; even if you decide not to use them, the scenario books (currently 3, about to be 4) are worth the money for the background info and can be easily converted to any other rules you care to use.

In terms of 15mm figures, I would unreservedly go for Peter Pig – easily the best for historical accuracy and coverage of the major and minor troop types (the Blue Moon range had some promise, but appears to have stalled for a while now with key troops still uncovered – and the horses aren't great). PP also has it's own rules – Washington's Wars – which are quite good. However, I would tend to use them for ahistorical games (competitions, home campaigns, pick-up games at conventions) due to the pre-action rules and set-up, and stick to British Grenadier for historical refights.

Another vote for Guns of Liberty. although…. I just got a copy of Der Alte Fritz' (owner of Fife and Drum minis), and they look quite good. I have not, however, played them yet.

For smaller actions I would highly recomend Patriots! From The Perfect Captain. They are a version of their John Bull War of 1812 rules and are great fun. They also happen to be free, although TPC ask that you make a free will donation to the charity of your choice as payment. By small actions I mean actions in up to the low hundreds of men.

If you enjoy the maneuver and battlefield evolution of the period Larry Brom's Disperse Ye Damned Rebels! Is an excellent set, and actually makes changing formations in linear warfare both accurate and fun. It gave me a very good sense of battles comprised of those long lines of men moving at a slow and steady pace.

Loose Files and American Scramble is another fun set of free rules.

All of the sets listed above seem pretty solid choices. Hard to narrow the field without knowing what you like or don't like in rules.

I am also a fan of Land of the Free. Big pluses for me are the inclusion of lots of generic scenarios and a couple of historical ones as well as numerous examples of army creation. The army building system is very flexible and allows for any basing and figures you like. In a nut shell an army is built in "groups" of "elements" (functionally units). The minimum standard size is two groups of two elements each. Elements are categorized as Tiny, Small, Medium and Large, but what actual military formation these represent and/or how many men is entirely up to the players. Movement and shooting ranges remain constant.

A free set "Bloodybacks" (authored by Stephen Jones, with further modification and enhancements by HistoriFigs) can be found on the Table Top Talk website.

1:10, we have used them with figures sized from 10mm to 40mm with no problems. The rules are easy to pickup and do a decent job of providing the right 'feel' for the period/conflict.

link

Having hunted about GoL looks like fun. Small battles, counted units, hmmm. I've joined the Yahoo group, so hopefully the author will get back to me.

Why do you dislike BP? It would be easier to make cogent recommendations if we know what you're looking for. I never bothered to try BP because I like multi-player games and I'm done with rules that make everyone sit around and watch while one player moves.

When I set out to find rules a couple years ago, I was specifically looking for strong period flavor and battalions/regiments as maneuver units.

I tried Guns of Liberty and liked it, but I was having some trouble getting traction with the local gamers, so I've set it aside for a while. I will still buy the next version (3.0?) if Eric Burgess ever publishes it. GOL has pretty simple mechanics and very good pacing, but long lists of modifiers, which can drag out play a bit (esp. when we're all new players). The rules are written to let you chose stands or figures as the counting mechanism (I prefer stands).

I also tried Loose Files and American Scramble (can't beat the price!). As usual, I loved Andy Callan's innovative concepts, but his rules didn't quite stoke my fire.

I'm currently using Regimental Fire and Fury with the official (but experimental) AWI QRS (downloaded from the American Rev. page on fireandfury.com). RFnF is not the most "AWI" feeling game even with the official QRS, so I wrote a small collection of my own house rules (mostly just declarations of terrain and unit characteristics) to add period flavor, which I will happily send to anyone upon request. On the positive side, the RFnF rule book is clear, well organized and superbly edited, the game has good support, the system has good pacing (casualty rates vs. maneuver rates), the mechanics are easy to understand and explain, and it's popular enough that I can almost always get a couple experienced RFnF players in any game.

- Ix

GoL is great and I expect Eric will get back to you soon unless something is in the way. I recall he had some significant life distractions so be patient.

I've actually switched over to Rank and File from Crusader Publishing because I like that it covers a broader time span, technically 1740 to 1900 but that can stretched a bit on either side of those dates. And it includes options to 'narrow' the period flavor. It plays fast and simple and is an easy 'bolt on, bolt off' set of rules in the sense you can add or detract a bit here and there without 'breaking' the rules. I realize some here think such broad brush rules are heretical but it works for me. I like simple.

And I cannot agree more with Yellow Admiral, "you go and everybody else waits" rules are suitable for toilet paper and nothing more. What's fun about such rules, I wait for seven people then I go and then I wait for seven people again? NOOOOO!!!!!!

My preferred set is the somewhat dated 1776. They are pretty traditional rules – nothing clever about them. I just like they way they feel and the way they flow. You can still find them around for $10 USD or so (used of course, they were originally published in 1976).

They are pretty traditional rules – nothing clever about them.

You don't really need much more than that. The AWI is actually one of the simplest possible military genres to wargame, so there's no real need for complicated rules. Really the most important factor in picking a set of rules is whether your gaming buddies like it and are willing to play. You can add chrome (er… lace?) to nearly any core mechanics to get more period feel.

- Ix

Patriots and Loyalists
Guns of Liberty
Grenadier

I dislike the 'buckets of dice' approach. I prefer factors. Eric has replied, so hopefully I will be in a position to but figures at Cavalier :-)

The other thing I dislike about BP (and HC) – as others have said – is that it's very poor play value for multi-player games. OK if there are just two players, but I have seen very boring games involving 6 players.

Oh and the lure of an instant e-book is too great to stand, so I just bought LoF ….

Guns of Liberty and I would go with Blue Moon AWI figures, great sculpts easy to paint, but larger than other 15mm.

I like Guns of Liberty.

Whatever rules you use, the old Greg Novak sourcebooks are still available from Old Glory.

I think the story here is that there are plenty of rules out there on the period: skirmish, tactical, "buckets of dice", d20 systems, big units, small units, blah blah blah. This is a good thing of course.

In terms of content and value for your money (and considering someone starting from "scratch") I really think the LotF rules (which you got as a pdf I see) is one of your best options. BP, BG are great books… but very expensive (considering you need source/scenario books as well). Other rules like 1776, GoL are also good value in that they are pretty cheap in price.

Good luck. I am sure you will try a few different rules once you get your models sorted. :)

If you go with Guns of Liberty, join the Yahoo group, Eric stops in there quite often if you have questions.

I haven't got to play Washington's Wars yet but they look like a pretty good set.

Field of Battle 2 is another good rule set also. It covers 1700 to 1900, so you could use the same rules set for different eras. The author, Brent Oman, is also active on the Yahoo group as well.

John the OFM posted this helpful bit, when you get around to painting your miniatures:
TMP link

Great information guys, thanks. Now basing ….

the OFM suggests 2x1 single rank but given the plethora of rule sets available, which basing would you suggest for 15mm ?

I am veering towards 2 ranks on 30mm square because that seems to suit several suggestions. How does this sound ?

Have you looked at Pendraken 10mm figures, absolutely stunning.

You can buy more figures for the same money and either go big, numbers wise, regiments or same number, smaller frontage and more regiments?

Basing: I myself am basing mine in 2-ranks on either 40mm x 30mm, or 30mm square (not sure which yet). Six figs per base in both cases. I like the BIG CHUNKY look and feel of units/bases, so for most rules I will be fielding 3-4 or MORE bases of these guys and they will look grand.

I like the three figure files look when the models are in march column as well. Two figures side by side just doesn't look good to me.

Anyway… this basing should work with most rules I will be playing (LotF, BP, Maurice, etc.)

Guns of Liberty standard basing is 2 figures on 1 inch frontage. But, it is not critical. If you base differently you can either dice per figure as standard GoL rules or treat each of your bases as being a "standard" GoL base.

I find that is usually fairly easy to work out how to use any given set of figures and bases with any given set of rules. Many games don't even require a particular basing scheme.

2 ranks on 30mm square should work well. It is close enough to 1 inch to not require adjustment for rules that are based on that frontage, and will probably be close enough for 40mm standard sets too.

I base all my "line of battle" three abreast (in 15 mm I use 1/2" x 1 1/2" sheet metal bases). Only rule set I know that wouldn't work with is Koenig Krieg (and even then it might if all was based the same). Works out nice for lines, double lines, columns, and attack columns (not much used in AWI, of course). I just like the look.

Pete,

If you were in the U.S., I would suggest that you go to several conventions, play in all the AWI games available and pick the rules you like the best.

I don't know what you have available to you in the U.K. in terms of AWI participation games, but you can always look.

Lastly, if you have a laptop, consider the Carnage and Glory II computer assisted rules system. We have used it for years in the U.S. and played almost every AWI battle, large and small, with success.

Good luck.

47, yes sometimes I envy the US 'Convention' system for that reason, but I'm a bit stuck.

So far I've got copies of "Loose Files ", Fife & Drum", "Land of the Free" and I'm going to get a copy of BG tomorrow, plus my local club has occasional games of BP.

The plan at the moment is to base 15mm figures in 2 tanks on 20w x 30d bases so that I can try the different sets.

There are many reasons to like or dislike any rules set. I recommend that you decide on a basing scheme and use it for both sides. Then if you don't like the current set and you find one that seems good you don't have to worry about if the basing is compatible.
There are one or two rules out there with different basing schemes depending on the nationality or time (don't ask. I sold them immediately when I read this and forget the name…). Avoid them.

Light Bobs is now available at dayofbattle.com.

I am looking for a few discerning readers who would like a pdf version with the promise they would read and review them. If interested please PM me.

It's worth giving Maurice lite (free!) a try to see if it's your cup of tea before spending $$$. It's still my favourite ruleset for the character it brings to 18th Century wargaming. Each battle develops a real narrative and you can appreciate the historical limitations a commander of the age would have felt, whilst still being a crackingly entertaining game. Good fun!