"Troops used in the Norman conquest of Sicily" Topic
10 Posts
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Herkybird | 06 Feb 2015 2:48 p.m. PST |
Hi everyone! Does anyone have any information on likely small force composition of the Arabic and Byzantine groups fighting for and against the Normans? I am trying to do army lists for skirmishing, if that helps? Thanks in advance for any help! |
DeHewes | 06 Feb 2015 3:13 p.m. PST |
As mercenaries in the early Italo-Norman period, the Norman composition was more typical Norman. As they began conquering their own territories in southern Italy and Sicily in the 1050s-1070s, they added locals to their forces. This included Arab & Greek archers, slingers. Arab horse would have been used in a scout or skirmishing capacity. One piece of fiction on the period (Alfred Duggan's excellent The Lady for Ransom) mentions horse archers as well. |
Louie N | 06 Feb 2015 3:57 p.m. PST |
link This is an excellent read on the events, people, and places. |
Great War Ace | 06 Feb 2015 6:16 p.m. PST |
Arabic or Saracen pirates preyed upon the coasts from Sicily and North Africa throughout the period. Byzantine garrison troops were more "Italian" than Byzantine. If "the City" sent troops to help, they often were not empirical regulars, but mercenaries and could be anything from "Turks" to "Franks". The militia system of Thematic troops had largely disappeared by the mid to late 11th century. But an army list including the possibility of troops with "Roman" training, regulars or thematics, as an "elite" core around which to build a force of locals and mercenaries, would be reasonable. Norman forces (as already mentioned) would include "Lombard" troops from the towns and subjugated/allied duchies. Later, as they get into Sicily, they start using agreeable Muslim auxiliaries, until finally the Muslim element can comprise up to fifty percent of a Siculo-Norman army. Mostly foot archers and spear with javelins. Cavalry would be lancers with javelins, and horse archers.… |
Druzhina | 06 Feb 2015 10:21 p.m. PST |
David Nicolle dicusses the makeup of Muslim & Byzantine forces in The Cappella Palatina Ceiling and the Muslim Military Inheritance of Norman Sicily PDF Some illustrations: Hunter on an 11th century ivory drinking horn probably made in Muslim Sicily or Southern Italy Detail of carved ivory horn or 'oliphant' from Sicily Frieze of Hunters over the door of the Church of San Bernadetto, Brindisi, late 11th Century Armoured spearmen on the Morgan Casket, Southern Italy, 11th-12th century Ivory casket, muslim Sicily or Southern Italy, 11th-12th Centuries . rear view of the ivory casket from muslim Sicily or Southern Italy
Bargello Islamic Sicilian Ivory Casket with Horsemen, 12th Century Louvre Sicilian ivory pyxis, 12th century 12th century Arabic & Frankish costume in the Painted Wooden Ceiling of the Palatine Chapel, c.1140 Capitals in the Cloister of Monreale Cathedral, Palermo, 1174-82 Muslim Sicilian infantry in the Liber ad honorem Augusti by Pietro da Eboli, c.1197 Sicilian Ivory Casket with Hunters, Cappella Palatina, Palermo, 12th or 13th Century Sicilian Saracens, 12th-13th centuries, from Armies of Feudal Europe 1066-1300 by Ian Heath based on the above. Sicilian Greek Infantryman (Griffon), 11th century, from Armies of Feudal Europe 1066-1300 by Ian Heath based on the above. Druzhina 11th Century Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers |
Lewisgunner | 07 Feb 2015 4:56 a.m. PST |
Druzhina has given some excellent stuff there. The Normans had their knights who made a huge impression, both literally and metaphorically on the Arabs. They also had local Lonbard cavalry, equipped as the knights, ibly round shields, but not as fierce. They imported troops to garrison the cities they took so likely they could put infantry spearmen and skirmishing bowmen, crossbowmen and slingers into the field. A source later than the conquest has staff slings. These are the sort of weapons that you would use on a ship too as the staff sling had good range and The Arabs in Sicily relied heavily on Africa for support and brought over Berber Light cavalry doubtless infantry to support their Arab HC and spear and bow infantry. Of course they could also have local skirmshing Lughts such as javelinmen and skirmish bows and maybe slings too. The battles really depended upon the cavalry and I wonder if, because the Arab HC could not stand up to a charge of Norman knights the fights revolved around the cavalry engagement and and when the knights beat the Arab HC their infantry gave up. |
The Last Conformist | 07 Feb 2015 8:47 a.m. PST |
Where'd Siculo-Arab horse archers come from? In the core Arab lands, horse archers are generally Turkish imports, and Sicily seems an odd place to pick up the habit. |
Great War Ace | 07 Feb 2015 10:26 a.m. PST |
"Saracen" horse archers always existed separately from "Turkish" horse archers. By Ayyubid times, the core mamluk or askari cavalry were generally "Saracen" rather than "Turkish". These usually stood to shoot, rather than doing Parthian shots and the like. In my army list for Italo- and Siculo-Norman armies, I have the Muslim horse archers performing mobile archery, i.e. at a trot ("hand gallop") like Turks do. But I'm not sure that is accurate. Based on later (not that much later) eye witness descriptions from the Crusades, Saracen horse archers did not work that way…. |
Herkybird | 07 Feb 2015 1:25 p.m. PST |
This is all great, I am glad I asked here! Keep it coming guys! – and thanks! |
Druzhina | 07 Feb 2015 8:27 p.m. PST |
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