Gone Fishing | 05 Feb 2015 12:42 p.m. PST |
I'm hoping one of you can help me. This came up in conversation and I'm not sure of the answer. As the title indicates, I'd like to know how Medievals (English and French, if it matters) loaded horses on ships for a quick crossing--across the Channel, for example. I'd guess they used ramps or some kind of crane? While ramps could work off a built-up wharf, I'd guess this wasn't very easy from a shoreline or smaller town's facilities. If it makes a difference, I'm most interested in the practice during the 14th century. I'd greatly appreciate any answers! Thank you! |
Swampster | 05 Feb 2015 1:11 p.m. PST |
PDF link is a paper on this very subject. Mostly Med (as in the title) but reference to a couple of non-Med examples. Some specialist ships were used, especially in the Med, which had opening section in the hull which were then caulked shut. S. |
ColCampbell | 05 Feb 2015 2:06 p.m. PST |
IIRC, William took horses with him in 1066. I would think it was still practiced in the 1300s. Although France had a lot of horses, I'm sure the English would transport some over with them to Calais or Bordeaux. Jim |
peterx | 05 Feb 2015 2:28 p.m. PST |
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The Beast Rampant | 05 Feb 2015 3:22 p.m. PST |
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elsyrsyn | 05 Feb 2015 3:33 p.m. PST |
With liberal use of profanity? Doug |
Sundance | 05 Feb 2015 4:04 p.m. PST |
Somewhere I saw a sketch of a crane and sling system being used to hoist the horse into the hold of the ship, so your assumption holds water. I don't know now where I saw it, though. |
Lewisgunner | 05 Feb 2015 4:04 p.m. PST |
It depends when on the tide you do it! Well, outside the med it. does. If the tide is right the horse can be jumped down and nto the ship. If its high the horse will have to go up and then down a ramp. |
Gone Fishing | 05 Feb 2015 4:32 p.m. PST |
Thank you all! Swampster, for some reason my computer is having trouble downloading that PDF, but will keep trying. Any further comments would be appreciated! |
Swampster | 05 Feb 2015 5:10 p.m. PST |
Keep trying the PDF – it even has some pics. In summary, some descriptions of doors cut into the sides of the ships. Some in the sides, some in the stern though the author says this could mean at the rear of the side of the ship rather than literally in the stern like a modern ferry. Some of these doors were able to be opened to allow beach landings in the vicinity of the enemy according to Villehardouin and Joinville. Ramps also used, sometimes with removable bulwarks to allow access. |
Old Glory | 05 Feb 2015 5:20 p.m. PST |
A ramp and a rope I would suppose? Regards Russ Dunaway |
tmy 1939 | 05 Feb 2015 6:45 p.m. PST |
Some of the references in the Wikipedia article about "Horse Transports in the Middle Ages" link might help answer your question although the PDF does a great job. |
Historicalgamer | 06 Feb 2015 5:39 a.m. PST |
They got into the grog supply? |
Gone Fishing | 06 Feb 2015 8:10 a.m. PST |
Can't thank you enough for the quick summary, Swamp. I'm embarrassed to admit my computer is baulking at opening that file (even my wife can't get it to work, and she's much better at such things than I am). My wife will speak to her office's tech guy on Monday to see if he can work some magic. Until then, "the short answer" is a great start. Thank you kindly! Tmy 1939--I'll look at that Wikipedia article as well. Much appreciated, sir! |
Great War Ace | 06 Feb 2015 10:18 a.m. PST |
Ships changed between Wm the Conqueror and the 14th century. The "Knorr" of the Scandinavian world was gone from NW Europe. Cogs, round ships, were the common vessel in the middle ages. The low sides of a Knorr/longship allowed the horses to leap out directly into the water. Loading them in the first place was more problematic. Several suggestions have been advanced, including ramps, or propping the ship on its side during low tide and stepping the horses in, then righting the ship by removing the props (a body of men could temporarily prop the ship over on its side while the horses were walked onboard, then let the ship back down); high tide would float the ship and you're away. But round ships, or cogs, must make full use of ports with dock facilities in order to load and unload horses. Galleys may have been the main horse transport in the Mediterranean. And the caulked door in the hull seems to have been ubiquitous. I don't know of any boom and sling method being used to load many horses, it would be too slow(?). So to cap: earlier, shallow draft vessels were more handy, being capable of landing on any beach. But they would be utterly unsuited to a lengthy voyage, e.g. across the Mediterranean, and thus more secure methods of transport were used for any voyages longer than c. a day or two…. |
Gone Fishing | 08 Feb 2015 1:20 p.m. PST |
Sorry about the delayed response, Ace. That information is extremely helpful. Thank you, thank you! |