Bashytubits | 03 Feb 2015 5:35 p.m. PST |
Does anyone every try to mess with their gaming opponents to gain an advantage during the game?
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ochoin | 03 Feb 2015 5:38 p.m. PST |
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Mako11 | 03 Feb 2015 5:39 p.m. PST |
Sometimes. Asking questions loudly and openly to the GM about when the reserves, air support, etc. will be arriving sometimes works. Also, if available, but not included in the scenario, messing about, and staging combat vehicles not included in the game, on a back table sometimes make life interesting for opponents, I suspect. |
cavcrazy | 03 Feb 2015 5:41 p.m. PST |
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Battle Phlox | 03 Feb 2015 5:44 p.m. PST |
I'm not smart enough to pull that off. |
darthfozzywig | 03 Feb 2015 5:55 p.m. PST |
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Cold Steel | 03 Feb 2015 5:57 p.m. PST |
That's the best part of gaming. |
Extra Crispy | 03 Feb 2015 5:58 p.m. PST |
All the time. One time I was the reinforcements due on turn 3. SO I went and stood by the road entry in the SW corner. Stood there for an hour watching. Quite a shock when I deployed my division eleswhere, after the Russians sent a cavalry division to guard that road… Ran a game where we took an "administrative/bathroom break" with me as GM. Players went off to , get a drink etc. While they were gone I added another table to the game on one end…. I also took a clipboard full of figures and plopped it down prominently as if they were reinforcements…. |
Great War Ace | 03 Feb 2015 6:18 p.m. PST |
No. That kind of stuff is "playing with the game", as compared to playing the game. Artificially manipulating the hardware to create uncertainty is outside the boundary of the rules as a simulation. It is "gamy". Standing in a certain spot so that your opponents will suspect that that is where you are going to enter is using a kind of information that the tabletop armies do not have. What, in RL, would allow an army to fake an entry point by standing beside it? Etc…. |
Ron W DuBray | 03 Feb 2015 6:33 p.m. PST |
all the time I'll play with minis not on the table roll dice and look in to rule books and laugh all kinds of stuff. :) |
21eRegt | 03 Feb 2015 6:39 p.m. PST |
I'll sometimes play the "disinformation" game within the game, but we typically do it in such an outrageous manner that it is obviously BS. |
chasseur | 03 Feb 2015 6:40 p.m. PST |
I used to do that type of stuff more than I do now. Though I still keep my re-reinforcements hidden. When I was running scenarios I would routinely have Tigers or King Tigers set aside with rest of the re-reinforcements, but never bring them on. That sort of thing. Actually, I think that it adds quite a bit to the fog of war. How often in real life would a general know exactly what the other guy had on the far side of the hill? |
etotheipi | 03 Feb 2015 6:43 p.m. PST |
Absolutely not. I never have to try … |
Chris Palmer | 03 Feb 2015 6:45 p.m. PST |
There are numerous historical incidents of Commanders moving troops to counter suspected enemy reinforcements that were non-existent based on faulty scouting, rumor, etc., I think this kind of stuff helps mimic the uncertainty and fog of war the written rules can't. |
138SquadronRAF | 03 Feb 2015 6:48 p.m. PST |
No. The group I play with is "The Gentlemen Gamers" we are called this for a reason. Anything other than gentle banter will mean you are not invited back. Ever. We do forgive and remember everything. Forever. |
Rhoderic III and counting | 03 Feb 2015 6:57 p.m. PST |
No, and I don't appreciate it when my opponent does it to me. The point of messing with your opponent's head is essentially to cause them undue worry. You make them have to fret the fact that you're a devious player who can't be taken at face value and whose every action must be read into on some deeper level. The bottom line being that the game becomes a more stressful experience to them. I have enough worries in real life. It's not what I'm after in my hobbies, or I'd be playing poker. That said, messing with the players' heads when you're the gamemaster is an altogether different thing, so long as you're being reasonably even-handed and don't do it for your own amusement at their expense. |
leidang | 03 Feb 2015 7:00 p.m. PST |
My finest Psyops moment…. I was playing in large multi-day Kharkov campaign and had taken a small village and was holding it as the Germans counter attacked with a mech infantry battalion and supporting armor. The German's had called in a smoke barrage to cover their assault and I called in a huge artillery strike of Katyusha's and 152's to try to stop them. The turn prior to the artillery fall he started to move his first halftrack through the smoke to assault which would have put him inside my bombardment so I just said" you know I'll get opp fire as you come through the smoke?". He then thought about it pulled the halftrack back to the back side of the smoke and dismounted all his infantry. He then did the same with his whole assault force. Which was immediately decimated and pinned by my artillery plot in the artillery phase of the next turn. After a several turns of fire for effect he was left with a broken command and 50-60% casualties. The best part was I only had a couple units that could have fired on him coming through the smoke (which he could see as the game was open) and each only had a 5 percent or so chance to hit on an opp fire shot. He could have swept me aside easily. |
Coyotepunc and Hatshepsuut | 03 Feb 2015 7:12 p.m. PST |
Only when their hair needs fixing. |
thabear | 03 Feb 2015 7:12 p.m. PST |
Yes . There is one local chap I play who I always know how to get to . Whenever he plays a new unit in any game system , period or scale it is his absolute pride and joy for the day . I concentrate all my effort in destroying that one unit , he absolutely goes nuts over it and it usually is the catalyst for a dramatic defeat. It is brilliant to watch the entire force crumble as a result of this one unit going down , cheers Tom |
53Punisher | 03 Feb 2015 7:22 p.m. PST |
Yes! …and I can only play solo nowadays. My Precious hates it. :) |
Nick Pasha | 03 Feb 2015 7:29 p.m. PST |
Always give your opponent something to think about. It drives them crazy. |
Pedrobear | 03 Feb 2015 8:35 p.m. PST |
I try to shake their morale. "Your lot there is going to be swept away by my unit once they get within charge range." "Why don't you give up now? Your guys obviously don't stand a chance against my firepower." |
Dan 055 | 03 Feb 2015 8:51 p.m. PST |
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miniMo | 03 Feb 2015 9:00 p.m. PST |
Not their heads per se. But when they're deep in thought, it's fun to lean over and lick their glasses. |
Doug MSC | 03 Feb 2015 10:25 p.m. PST |
Yep! And they with mine! It's all in fun. |
DS6151 | 03 Feb 2015 10:48 p.m. PST |
Feints and deception are part of a wargame, and are different from "messing with their head". The former is expected and fine, the latter is actions outside of the game, and blatantly suggests that you're incapable of playing well on your own. If you can't play well, don't play at all. |
bsrlee | 03 Feb 2015 11:55 p.m. PST |
I know of a number of female gamers who use the old "presence attack' on male gamers. (.)(.) |
Martin Rapier | 04 Feb 2015 12:16 a.m. PST |
Banter yes, being an ultra competitive , no. |
Cosmic Reset | 04 Feb 2015 3:32 a.m. PST |
No, I try to keep the game on the tabletop. |
Porthos | 04 Feb 2015 5:53 a.m. PST |
Only if it is fun, NEVER to gain an ambitious advantage. So absolutely no "competetive tricks", just harmless teasing. |
Bowman | 04 Feb 2015 6:14 a.m. PST |
Yes, but not in the manner the OP is suggesting. By friendly, self deprecating banter, slight teasing and otherwise (what I hope is) gentlemanly play, I mess with my opponent's head in a way that he looks forward to playing me again. I do remember the fine opponents I've played against, I say hi to them at the cons, and can't actually remember if I won or lost the game we played. People know when they are screwed with, and while those hijinks make for interesting reading on threads such as this, your opponents remember you in an unflattering way. |
M C MonkeyDew | 04 Feb 2015 7:38 a.m. PST |
Yes, but only when solo gaming. +1 bowman |
Raynman | 04 Feb 2015 8:15 a.m. PST |
I was watching a 40K tournament one time between a guy and a rather buxom gal with a low cut top. Every time she moved her troops she would bend way over the table. The guy's eyes would go to her cleavage and he would just stare. He didn't know who he was, where he was or what he was doing. She kicked his behind and he didn't see any of it coming. I laughed my rear end off, after seeing what she was doing. She knew it too. |
Dave Crowell | 04 Feb 2015 8:19 a.m. PST |
No. My head is messed up enough already. ;) Yes, this means most of my games are solo. When I had a regular gaming group my most effective psychological warfare tactic was to always have some big, shiny, impressive looking fire magnet on the tabletop. A unit painted and based to perfection. The sort of thing the enemy just has to try and take out on general principle. Then I would make my plans as if this unit was not even part of my army. My opponents would be suckered into wasting lots of energy trying to destroy a throw away unit, leaving me free to concentrate on the rest of the game. I did also ruthlessly exploit my 40K oponent's fear of Eldar Howling Banshees. As soon as those ladies hit the table he would do everything he could to avoid them. This amused the rest of us no end because they were actually a fairly fragile unit if they did not win on the charge. It is always great fun to field a unit the mere presence of which acts as an area denial weapon. But taking it beyond the level of friendly banter and a little fog of war is not fun. I have played against opponents who would ask me every time I declared an action "are you sure you want to do *that*?", every, single, freaking time. It gets old really fast. |
OSchmidt | 04 Feb 2015 8:25 a.m. PST |
I used to but it was too easy, like clubbing to death cocker spaniel puppies in the corner. |
Parzival | 04 Feb 2015 8:35 a.m. PST |
Light banter, mild back and forth teasing, and in game cleverness is fine. But abusing another person for perverse pleasure is not. That's not gaming, that's being a bully. |
jefritrout | 04 Feb 2015 9:02 a.m. PST |
I will only do it with certain folks that really, really annoy me. There is one guy who plays in tournaments that I do mess with. He puts his stuff out all over his side of the table. When placing terrain, I will not put the terrain in the most advantageous place for me, but in places that make him move whatever he has just put on the table. Yes it throws him off his game, but it took years for me to do this. The way that I usually "mess" with folks head is by playing with an unusual army that most folks do not face on a regular basis. |
Big Red | 04 Feb 2015 9:10 a.m. PST |
I will tickle the enemy on their right and see what that English Aristocrat is made of. I will write about the results from a small, South Atlantic island. |
49mountain | 04 Feb 2015 9:34 a.m. PST |
When I was young and stupid I did. Now it is hard enough just remembering which are my troops. Mind games are thankfully in the past. |
Great War Ace | 04 Feb 2015 9:50 a.m. PST |
My last tabletop game with a late friend resulted in him not moving his own troops accurately, including moving figures from one unit in with another unit by accident. I was sad and annoyed. This sort of thing happens enough as it is, without artificially making it happen more so that you can win…. |
Doctor X | 04 Feb 2015 10:58 a.m. PST |
I don't play tournamenfs any more so I know the guys I game with for over 30 years at least. Taunting among the group is fine. Never with an outsider though. When I did play tournaments I only mind ed the guys that were being jerks. Other than to get some justice if did get old and boring and as OSchmidt said, way to easy. |
Bashytubits | 04 Feb 2015 11:06 a.m. PST |
For those who have misinterpreted my OP it was meant in a playful teasing manner, no thuggery or rudeness implied or allowed. I have someone I game with who only uses tiny dice, so when I play him I use my GIANT dice(they are 2 inches square), this causes a lot of laughter and playful ribbing in the group. I tell him they are my averaging die, so as to average out dice size because of his microscopic diceplay. I strongly believe in humor, life is too short to take everything deadly serious. |
By John 54 | 04 Feb 2015 11:24 a.m. PST |
All sounds a bit silly, not to say pathetic, to me. John |
Rhoderic III and counting | 04 Feb 2015 1:37 p.m. PST |
For those who have misinterpreted my OP it was meant in a playful teasing manner, no thuggery or rudeness implied or allowed. […] I strongly believe in humor, life is too short to take everything deadly serious. Then, in fairness, "to gain an advantage during the game" is easy to misinterpret. The idea of treating your opponent's peace of mind as permissibly violable for the sake of gaining a competitive edge is what I for one was replying to. Humour is welcome, as long as no one (excepting maybe the joker himself) is made the butt of the joke. |
McWong73 | 04 Feb 2015 2:00 p.m. PST |
If your only route to winning on the table is silliness off the table, you're doing it wrong. |
edmuel2000 | 04 Feb 2015 3:21 p.m. PST |
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Big Red | 04 Feb 2015 3:48 p.m. PST |
Many view our entire hobby as silly and pathetic. It's all what you make it. |
ubercommando | 04 Feb 2015 4:12 p.m. PST |
Some gamers like to study the works of Sun Tzu, others have read Von Clausewitz, or Guderian, or Liddell Hart. I, however, maintain that Stephen Potter's "Gamesmanship" and "Lifemanship" books are essential reading for gamers. The mantra here is "The first muscle stiffened is the first point gained". You don't want to be boorish, or cheat, or get thrown out of your games club. The trick is to be subtle, but worry your opponent and makes yourself appear to be the tactical genius you're not. The best bit of gamesmanship I've heard of is Conrad Kinch's story of the guy who brought in a large box marked "Russian Reinforcements" but which, in fact, turned out to be empty. My method is to pace around the table like a snooker player before the game starts, dropping down to model height level as if I'm assessing lines of sights and fields of fire. I'm not; usually I don't have a clue what my strategy is going to be but if my opponent thinks I do…. I've encountered a few opponents who like to provide very audible clairvoyant commentary for the game. They'll say to either their opponent or team mate, quite loudly, "On turn two I'll advance my column to the crossroads, he has to respond and commit his centre to it, that's when I'll hit him here…on the flank…which he can't risk so he'll commit his reserves there…that's when we launch the cavalry attack, which will force him to form square or else retire, and at that point we'll bombard him and rush for the objective. The game will be won by turn 5." If you suggest he's talking nonsense, he'll quiz you and goad you by saying "you know and I know that you have to advance to meet my threat, and that you'll have to risk your flanks." They try to goad you into thinking there's only one option available to you. |
ubercommando | 04 Feb 2015 4:29 p.m. PST |
Whilst I remember, other ploys I've used include: Drawing useless maps of the battlefield and jotting down random doodles on it just below the table edge (and out of my opponent's sight). Sometimes I'll show my team mate the map and if he's in on the joke he'll make circular or stabbing motions at a particular bit of it. Keep periodically looking at an obscure and largely irrelevant terrain feature as if it's crucial to your plans (maybe there are hidden troops you've got there…there aren't). As the enemy bears down on your thinly stretched position, pick up a copy of the rulebook, turn to a team mate and say "what chapter are the ambush rules in?" |
boy wundyr x | 04 Feb 2015 4:37 p.m. PST |
I always give my opponents a chance to surrender before the game begins. And when playing Napoleonics, I frequently claim to have nuclear weapons and/or a Tiger tank "coming any minute". |