Editor in Chief Bill | 31 Jan 2015 4:48 p.m. PST |
Somehow, it seems that "global warming" has come up several times on the forums (although it is not usually considered a wargaming topic…). This usually leads to chaos and anarchy. Should discussion of global warming be banned from the TMP forums? |
Legbiter | 31 Jan 2015 4:56 p.m. PST |
Nihil humanum me alienum est! So my vote, no. I reserve my right to get bored and move on if comrades are talking about it in a dull and play-book-following kind of way. |
Tom Bryant | 31 Jan 2015 5:00 p.m. PST |
It is all going to depend on how proper and mature the conversation can be. Its like Gun Control, Big Government/Small Government, Socialism, etc. Sociao-political arguments that crop usp her, or used to from time to time. If you can argue and debate in a mature and decent way then there is no problem. If you're throwing out troll-bait for the sake of starting a flame war than no. People who enter such arguments here need to bear in mind two things: 1. They need to act like adults and 2. they need to maintain some air of rationality, and not just be glib and snarky with their comments and input. |
Bunkermeister | 31 Jan 2015 5:03 p.m. PST |
No. The fact that they garner a lot of hits and a lot of comments means people are interested in the topic. When it's no longer interesting, it will die on it's own. I never understand why people can't just scroll past the topic if they don't want to read about it. Mike Bunkermeister Creek Bunker Talk blog |
D A THB | 31 Jan 2015 5:06 p.m. PST |
It is a current event so it probably should be banned under the rules. |
Legbiter | 31 Jan 2015 5:29 p.m. PST |
Ah! But IS it a current event? :-) |
Dynaman8789 | 31 Jan 2015 5:53 p.m. PST |
Yes, it will invariably lead to politics even though it should be a purely scientific realm of discussion. |
jeffreyw3 | 31 Jan 2015 5:54 p.m. PST |
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Fizzypickles | 31 Jan 2015 5:55 p.m. PST |
I was unaware that Current Affairs was off limits in the Lounge. Lashings of apologies. I'll no longer feed the monster. 2 days in the cell next to Smokey singing was enough for me. |
Rhoderic III and counting | 31 Jan 2015 5:56 p.m. PST |
A few years back there was a pilot for an abortive sci-fi series, in which global warming had turned a deglaciated Arctic into a new Wild West where small-scale conflicts were taking place between various scum, roughnecks and agents of resource-hungry nations and corporations. If someone on TMP wanted to discuss gaming such a setting (whether the specific one mentioned above, or another of their own devising which just happens to be similar), would it be banned? Even ignoring the existence or non-existence of global warming here and now, lots of sci-fi stories relate to global warming in some way or another. Soylent Green and Fallen Angels come to mind. Getting political on the subject shouldn't be allowed. That's all. |
Rebelyell2006 | 31 Jan 2015 6:02 p.m. PST |
Yes, it will invariably lead to politics even though it should be a purely scientific realm of discussion. If there is one thing Americans are good at, it is politicizing scientific ideas like evolution, vaccines, modern pharmacology, and fluoride. |
RavenscraftCybernetics | 31 Jan 2015 6:10 p.m. PST |
everybody talks about the weather but no one wants to do anything about it. NO! climate changing machininery plays a big role in pulpy goodness on the game table. ymmv |
Doctor X | 31 Jan 2015 6:20 p.m. PST |
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cosmicbank | 31 Jan 2015 6:27 p.m. PST |
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tberry7403 | 31 Jan 2015 6:36 p.m. PST |
No. …one thing Americans are good at… Yea, just Americans. |
Rebelyell2006 | 31 Jan 2015 6:54 p.m. PST |
Yea, just Americans. grin We're a bit worse off than the others because we want to give all sides equal time to share their ideas on scientific non-issues like climate change, vaccines, and various other topics of medicine. So, we shove a camera in the faces of the various cranks and crackpots instead of telling them to shut up and read a science book. |
Grelber | 31 Jan 2015 7:05 p.m. PST |
My vote would be "no," since global climate change (cooling in this case) played a significant role in the Middle Ages. There are also more recent military history applications, like the buglers' spit freezing up their instruments at the Washita. I'm from that part of the world, and I don't think it has been that cold in my lifetime. My impression is that more people in the US are accepting it as fact that temperatures are warming up. The politicized issues are how far this will go, how this affects dramatic weather (like hurricanes, tornadoes, and blizzards) and what, if any, role human activity has had in the warming. I think we can discuss gaming aspects of a warmer world and still avoid these issues. Will the crew of an air conditioned tank operate more efficiently than that of a non-air conditioned tank? If so, how much so and how do we apply this factor in our games? Grelber |
Ron W DuBray | 31 Jan 2015 7:19 p.m. PST |
yes ban it It has no place here. |
goragrad | 31 Jan 2015 7:28 p.m. PST |
Why??? It is as topical as any of the other topics on the Ultra Modern or historical boards. And at the same time, as noted, climate change has impacted civilizations as long as there have been civilizations. As well as impacting the world before there were civilizations. Rightly or wrongly, if it is impacting the behavior of governments and militaries it is as legitimate as any other Ultra Modern topic. |
Sysiphus | 31 Jan 2015 7:33 p.m. PST |
I need my money to buy toy soldiers. Global Warming and the attempts to redistribute wealth ( read taxes ) to stop it, go against my needs to aquire miniatures. As this is a forum dedicated to those miniatures, any discussion that would ultimately impede their aquisition should be banned. |
doug redshirt | 31 Jan 2015 8:10 p.m. PST |
Makes it sort of hard to do near future games or post apocalyptic games if my scenario requires global climate change to be the cause of the setting or conflict and I cant discuss it with others. |
elsyrsyn | 31 Jan 2015 8:37 p.m. PST |
Unless you plan on actually enforcing the rules more generally (e.g. nearly every thread on the ultramodern board should, by the stated TMP rules, be nuked and result in multiple dawghousings), then no – it would be capricious. Doug |
artaxerxes | 31 Jan 2015 8:42 p.m. PST |
Doesn't have to be near future games only. There is a good argument that climate shift in Wset Africa is making marginal lands even less productive and thus fuelling insurrections like Boko Haram. Geoffrey Parker has recently produced an excellent (but really BIG) book on climate change and the 17th Century which shows how shifts in weather patterns fueled resource wars etc on a global basis. Another colleague of mine has pointed out that the el nino/el nina shifts in the Indian Ocean littoral produce good and bad seasons in Australia (which we've known for a while) and is mapping a casual relationship between bad seasons and spikes in conflict with indigenous peoples as blacks and whites competed in the 19th Century for dwindling grasslands, drying water supplies etc. |
StoneMtnMinis | 31 Jan 2015 9:01 p.m. PST |
It is hard to have a reasoned, logical discussion on weather changes because it is all based on computer modeling which ignores the main culprit, the Sun. Global warming should probably stay in Blue Fez land where we can blast away at each other without fear of the dreaded dawghouse. Although, i recently saw an article by several climatologists that indicated that the chance of another Ice Age was 50% more likely than the Earth dramatically getting hotter. So maybe we should have a future Ice Age board. |
Patrick Sexton | 31 Jan 2015 9:14 p.m. PST |
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wrgmr1 | 31 Jan 2015 9:21 p.m. PST |
What does global warning have to do with Toy Soldiers and gaming? |
StarfuryXL5 | 31 Jan 2015 9:22 p.m. PST |
No. Free speech and all that. And protecting privacy. |
Khusrau | 31 Jan 2015 9:42 p.m. PST |
Rebelyell2006 – I don't often agree, but you hit the nail squarely this time. 2014 hottest year on record, and reasonable future predictions are going to make a big difference. When the US DoD is including climate change in its future scenarios, we should pay attention. |
Rebelyell2006 | 31 Jan 2015 9:44 p.m. PST |
the main culprit, the Sun I didn't realize Page 3 girls caused climate change. |
Mako11 | 31 Jan 2015 9:57 p.m. PST |
I guess we'll need to ask the same thing about the "global cooling" topic too, since it was just a few decades ago they were bleating on about the coming "ice age", so……. As someone just this week pointed out, when you can't get tomorrow's forecast right, how can you predict anything decades, or centuries from now? |
jdpintex | 31 Jan 2015 10:03 p.m. PST |
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Halifax49 | 31 Jan 2015 10:27 p.m. PST |
I'm all for global warming! Anything to make winters a bit more bearable. |
MH Dee | 31 Jan 2015 10:30 p.m. PST |
I think GW would be an issue regarding near-future moderns/SF. Probably more so than a pack of internet warriors bleating about muslims, like that bloke a few weeks back who claimed the entire muslim population of a big town in the US all danced in the street after the 9/11 attacks. Which was patently but it took other posters to point it out that it was. |
Calico Bill | 01 Feb 2015 4:07 a.m. PST |
I agree with wrgmr1. What does global warming have to do with Toy Soldiers and gaming? There are better sites to discuss global warming. I come here for info on miniatures and gaming. |
War Artisan | 01 Feb 2015 4:08 a.m. PST |
The topic isn't the problem, Bill. The problem is the people who can't discuss it intelligently, without linking it to some ideological agenda. Treating the symptoms will not cure the disease. Leave the topic alone, as long as it's introduced in a miniature gaming context. DH those who cross the line into political/ideological territory. It's more work for you that way, I know, but banning whole topics that are not intrinsically offensive is a bit heavy-handed. |
Ewan Hoosami | 01 Feb 2015 4:17 a.m. PST |
No! Sticking your head in the sand should be banned though. |
etotheipi | 01 Feb 2015 4:55 a.m. PST |
The topic isn't the problem, Bill. The problem is the people who can't discuss it intelligently, without linking it to some ideological agenda. I completely agree with that. My posts of the topic have been to tell both sides that if you're going to post about the details of high-end science, you need to actually know high-end science. DH those who cross the line into political/ideological territory. Only if the trolling rule applies; i.e., posting "scientific facts" as science that are not correct, and often not even scientific statements counts as instigating. |
ZULUPAUL | 01 Feb 2015 5:27 a.m. PST |
Yes it has no place in this forum. (unless under fantasy) |
Winston Smith | 01 Feb 2015 6:04 a.m. PST |
It's not global warming anymore. It's "Climate Change". To even hint that it is a natural event and/or not man caused and/or not going to wipe out all life within 25 years is akin to blasphemy within ISIS. No one ever convinces the "other" side. Mister Raw Data Chart Guy will spam a thread with gifs of tiny print and act stunned when heretics don't repent. Bill, I would treat any and all discussions as equivalent to religion and politics. Give any poster one warning, since a lot of us quite sensibly have Polls turned off and won't see the results. Final thing is that it has absolutely nothing to do with miniature wargaming. |
Henry Martini | 01 Feb 2015 7:23 a.m. PST |
And lo, the point is helpfully underlined. |
Fizzypickles | 01 Feb 2015 7:54 a.m. PST |
So, are current affairs banned in the Lounge or not? The irony is how much more opinion there seems to be on Climate change than any single gaming related topic. Perhaps a little creative humour of such a serious topic might help. YouTube link You're Welcome. |
Freak from Vienna | 01 Feb 2015 8:08 a.m. PST |
Do I favor a topic be banned to appease what is a vocal minority? Not really. However, scientists adhering to the theory of man-made global warming tend to consider this a topic that requires tackling on a political level, which explains why there is a political discussion (more so in some parts of the world than others), so technically, the POLITICS rule already applies. Common people (i.e. non-scientists) who dismiss global warming outright tend to display the same religious zeal as one might expect in an evolution vs creationism debate. And that's despite the fact that most scientists skeptical of man-made global warming still agree warming as such is occurring, but has other (or hitherto undetermined) causes. Admittedly, it's a little bit of a stretch, but the topic can also be considered tantamount to RELIGION. So yes, banned it should be. |
Ed Mohrmann | 01 Feb 2015 8:19 a.m. PST |
Rebelyell2006 said: "If there is one thing Americans are good at, it is politicizing scientific ideas like evolution, vaccines, modern pharmacology, and fluoride" Thanks ! Glad to hear that it apparently happens ONLY in America (which of course includes Canada and Mexico). I'm SOOOOOOO assured ! Now, to which of these non-science politicizing places should I emigrate ??? |
The G Dog | 01 Feb 2015 8:30 a.m. PST |
Maybe you should ditch all the forums and focus on your miniature warmgaming news sections? |
Rebelyell2006 | 01 Feb 2015 8:30 a.m. PST |
Thanks ! Glad to hear that it apparently happens ONLY in America (which of course includes Canada and Mexico). I didn't say that. |
Fizzypickles | 01 Feb 2015 8:34 a.m. PST |
Which places outside of America (that is the U.S.A., the inclusion of Mexico and Canada would make it North America of the 'Americas') have you already visited Ed? |
redbanner4145 | 01 Feb 2015 9:35 a.m. PST |
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Weasel | 01 Feb 2015 11:33 a.m. PST |
The lounges are mostly just people arguing about the same 3 topics over and over (climate change, political correctness and some variation of how everything is terrible now) and people seem happy with that so leave it. Just keep it out of the gaming forums and voila. Everyone wins, right? |
skippy0001 | 01 Feb 2015 11:42 a.m. PST |
Create a Global Warming/Worldly Humidifying/Weather Machine/What Weather? board and stick all comments there. The debate won't be resolved for a couple hundred/thousand/million/epochal millenium years anyway. Hopefully, we'll all be off this dirtball by then and our miniatures will finally be painted.:) |
GarrisonMiniatures | 01 Feb 2015 1:13 p.m. PST |
Naaaa….. too much fun winding either side up…. |