"Fancy Pincushions, (A study of the Lethality of War Arrows)" Topic

This study is a series of experiments to see if arrows from 1337-1453 can penetrate certain types of armor from the same era

link

Oh, I see. So they haven't actualy done the study. This is a Kickstarter project to raise funds to do a study.

My first question would be who is going to undertake this study and what are their academic credentials?

I note that a previous (2005) Defence Academy study was carried out by someone from Cranfiled and someone from King's College London – both notable institutions with a track record in military studies.

Who though is Cameron C-Weir?

Ah, I see there is a bio here:
link

Hmm … a BA in Medieval Studies and Sociology from Augsburg College? Never heard of Augsburg College but a swift bit of Googling tells me it is Minneapolis.

Only a BA and from a fairly average institution at that. I suggest he'd be better off doing this as a Master's …

Not altogether clear what it would tell us about combat. An arrow certainly can be lethal as a bullet – it can also fail to do any serious damage. How will the study evaluate a concentrated arrow storm? How would it assess the range of armour that might appear in one target unit? Is morale a more significant factor – or how frightened are the horses?

Maybe this study is his master's thesis. Or again, maybe not.
Jim

Maybe this study is his master's thesis.

If it is, why does he need $3,000 USD?

Tuition and booze ain't cheap.

Years ago in Raleigh, I attended a lecture by a british metallurgist (who was one of the co-inventors of the Chobham used in M-1s and similar tanks) who lectured on a set of experiments he had led on this very subject while employed by British Army and working with the Royal Armories collection – i.e. bodkin points and armor penetration using vintage plate, chain, arrow heads, and new Yew bows (using the staves from the Mary Rose long bow as the model) to evaluate English weapon effectiveness at Agincourt, Crecy, etc. I have long since lost the gentlemen's name but at the time he was a UK diplomat to the US and had come to NCSU to speak to the local American Society of Materials chapter on this fascinating subject.

His results supported penetration of both plate and chain for arrows fired at typical ranges and arcing trajectories for the period. I vaguely recall, his data indicated bodkin points penetrated 2 to 4 inches through chest armor with the shaft normally shattering on impact leaving the arrowhead embedded in the chest, padding, and outer armor. Wish I could remember his name, so I could dig up his papers on the effectiveness of medieval missile weapons and armor again.

The most interesting part was his additional discussion on the similarities of modern long rod tank penetrators. On the topic of tanks (not to derail this very much – he recommended "King of the Killing Fields" as a good open source discussion of the tank design issues of the 60s and 70s).

Already he says something as plausible that I do not agree with: the potential interior damage from receiving an arrow. Unless it penetrates directly to bone, say a solid hit on a rib, there will be very little if any damage to surrounding tissue. Arrows make clean holes, entry and exit wounds (in any) are identical. Low velocity ensures little actual impact energy. A "jelly body" does not contain any "ribs", therefore any electric sensors are not going to transmit information on received energy in imitation of a human body.

"Something was working". Sure enough. And as already proposed, it was the morale effect of an "arrow storm" and the sheer volume of that upon the recipients would almost guarantee that light to moderate wounds would be copiously dished out amongst a majority of front ranks and many interior and rear ranks. How can any number of arrows shot into any number of representative breastplates or bits of mail reflect such odds of injury?…

It's a little steep in terms of the money he's asking for to do this experiment. I'm fine with someone having the interest to do something like this but I kind of feel you shouldn't be crowdfunding it.

The morale effect of concentrated bow fire cannot be recreated in an experiment, and that is where I feel archery really shines.

The only thing that this experiment will do is give a little more evidence for those people who believe, or more likely don't believe, that an arrow can penetrate mail plus gambeson or even a breast plate.

It will look good on youtube though in slow motion.

My question would be: why?

Shooting arrows at bits of armour has been done before, with various degrees of academic rigour. All he is likely to prove is that it is possible for medieval armour to be penetrated by medieval arrows. At least some of the time. But we already knew that……