VP1818 | 29 Jan 2015 5:26 a.m. PST |
Hello All! I took a very long break from wargaming, and I am now looking to get back into it. Last I played, DBM 3 was on the decline, FoG was just starting, and a new rule set called Blackpowder was making waves. So, what are the major rule sets out now? I see that WAB has stopped being produced, but HC and Blackpowder are still alive. I also saw something called Le Art de Guerre(?). Also, are there any groups that meet up close to the DFW area? And what, if any, are the closest conventions to or in Texas? Thank you all so much! |
MajorB | 29 Jan 2015 5:46 a.m. PST |
Depends what sort of game you want to play. DBA V3.0 has now been published and Hail Caesar also seems very popular. You mention Black Powder but that is not a rule set for Ancients – the equivalent is HC. |
YogiBearMinis | 29 Jan 2015 6:04 a.m. PST |
Bolt Action is all the rage in WW2 gaming, and has attracted quite a few WAB players who were looking for something historical when WAB went out of print. FOW is still strong, but Bolt Action is a respectable second. SAGA for Dark Ages skirmish gaming is also big, and Muskets and Tomahawks for F&I war skirmish gaming is surprisingly popular. I think DBA 3.0 is going to reinvigorate that community quite a bit--it may or may not bring in tons of NEW players, but I believe it will refresh and reunite those players. I think the best of FoG are behind it now. Really, it seems like you are now in the golden age of 28mm skirmish gaming. As I look at gaming over the last couple of years, that is the big thing that stands out for me. |
MajorB | 29 Jan 2015 6:12 a.m. PST |
@VP1818: Are you asking about historical rules in general or just those for Ancients? |
Yesthatphil | 29 Jan 2015 6:17 a.m. PST |
I presume from the post that you are asking about popularity/common currency for ancient and medieval wargaming (I didn't understand what Current State of Historicals actually meant so I'm going by the post itself). In the UK FoG was very popular and undermined the traditional support for DBM … However its 2nd edition has not proved so popular and many players have been lost either to FoG-R (Renaissance) which plays more like a simplified variant of the first edition of FoG … or to Flames of War (players just shelving thie ancients armies altogether). DBMM, DBM's successor coexists amongst tournament players with FoG, and an updated DBM 3. Attractive generic newcomers are HC as above, Basic Impetus (which is great assuming you add an evade rule), Sword and Spear (which I haven't played). There are also a number of period or theme specific rules which doubtless people will mention … Dan Mersey's Dux Bellorum and Simon Miller's To the Strongest come to mind. A good beginners game would be Neil Thomas's Ancient and Medieval Wargaming (AMW) and Armati soldiers on for the aficionado … If you like following history more closely, Phil Sabin's Lost Battles is a must. For the compact game Saga has developed a strong following and DBA V3 has just been a 'sell out' release and promises to boost interest. As you can see, it is variety and choice that dominates these days rather than one particular game. So, in terms of which game to look at it really does depend on who you are likely to end up playing with (if not solo) and what you are looking for in the game. I think one to watch might well be the Big Battle version of DBA V3 … 3 commands in play, it might just fill a gap for players wanting the latest game but wanting more figures on the table. I will probably play more DBA 3 and AMW than anything else this year but my next ancient project will use a modified version of Basic Impetus … Phil Ancients on the Move |
TiberiusAugustus | 29 Jan 2015 6:29 a.m. PST |
FoG might be on the decline. Although its still the go to Ancients game here in the gulf coast. L art de guerre might be the ruleset to replace it. |
Yesthatphil | 29 Jan 2015 6:30 a.m. PST |
Really, it seems like you are now in the golden age of 28mm skirmish gaming. As I look at gaming over the last couple of years, that is the big thing that stands out for me. Well it certainly has had a lot of money and publicity bigging it up … but I have to say that it is far less common than the people bigging it up would have you believe. Of historical wargaming it seems to be quite a small part (especially of ancients which the OP seemed to be talking about) although I know a couple of guys who play Saga (although that does seem to have been yesterday's fad as far as one can tell) … Phil |
YogiBearMinis | 29 Jan 2015 7:39 a.m. PST |
What I meant by "golden age" is that there seem to be a rush of new rulesets and new games being played. I am not saying that 28mm skirmish is the number one thing right now, but in terms of "new" and "talked about" I think it qualifies. |
ernieR | 29 Jan 2015 8:23 a.m. PST |
several people in our group who have played Impetus for years tried Basic Impetus and decided it wasn't anywhere near as good . fine for someone just starting in Ancients and who was in the process of painting up an army but they'd rather not play it , so it ended up that nobody did play it. then along came Sword & Spear and it has completely replaced Impetus as our Ancients ruleset to the point that people who were sitting on the fence have ordered figures and we'll have 8 or 9 new armies on the field when they get painted . link if you like hard copy rules watch the forum for discount codes |
Ed the Two Hour Wargames guy | 29 Jan 2015 8:33 a.m. PST |
Try these guys. They have chapters around the whole state and a convention in November called Millennium Con. They'd have more info and specifics for you.Excellent people as well. lshm.org/blog Texicon is in June and they are pushing historical games this year as well. |
Marcus Brutus | 29 Jan 2015 9:15 a.m. PST |
I've been playing Impetus for the past 5 years and it has been the best gaming experience of my 30+ years of gaming. A great set. |
Bob Runnicles | 29 Jan 2015 12:18 p.m. PST |
WAB has stopped being produced but there are two successors out there, War & Conquest from Scarab Miniatures (by Rob Broom, who used to head up Warhammer Historical) and Clash of Empires from Great Escape Games. Both have had some fairly solid buzz from what I've been able to read online. |
Unlucky General | 29 Jan 2015 12:27 p.m. PST |
I can never get my head around why anything out of print should be somehow redundant. It's akin to feeling compelled to turf out a much loved novel just becausde it's no longer on the bookshop shelf. We don't have to pay registration fees or subscribe on-line or anthing so what s it with rules trends? It doesn't take too much imagination to figure out how to make copies of any rule sets available to incoming players. OR am I sounding like an old croaker? |
Mister Tibbles | 29 Jan 2015 3:00 p.m. PST |
No, I agree with you, General. Many good oop rules out there. I happen to be a Warmaster fan, fantasy and ancients, so I'm niche. But I also have WAB, FOG, Hail Caesar, Saga, Impetus, and DBA. All fun for different reasons and my mood at the moment. Still, WMA is my go to game. I don't think any one or two rulebooks dominates Ancients, unlike WWII and moderns. If the OP is into 15mm, use DBA basing which any rules can conform to. If 28mm, do single basing. No need to worry about rules. I think the OP is afraid he'll spend money on a ruleset he likes only to find no one in the area is interested. Then he'll feel like he wasted money. I get that bit. |
MajorB | 30 Jan 2015 6:21 a.m. PST |
I think the OP is afraid he'll spend money on a ruleset he likes only to find no one in the area is interested. Then he'll feel like he wasted money. I get that bit. If that is the case then he should simply ask around locally and go with what's popular. OTOH, we solo gamers don't have to conform to local popularity … |
Broken Spirit Wargames | 30 Jan 2015 3:51 p.m. PST |
Does the ancients genre need a new rule set? If so how different would it have to be from what's allready out there |
Bowman | 02 Feb 2015 10:28 a.m. PST |
I can never get my head around why anything out of print should be somehow redundant. It's akin to feeling compelled to turf out a much loved novel just because it's no longer on the bookshop shelf. Let me respectfully disagree. I feel that your analogy is also wrong. It's more akin to a repair manual to a car. Your book shows how to repair a Toyota Corolla up to a 2000 model. But this doesn't help, as you have a 2005 model and the publisher is not supporting the repair book any more. Let us use WAB as an example. Still a good game, with great supplements. Good if you have one of the supported armies. Sure, I can cobble together my own lists, but can I put together a better Macedonian list than Jeff Jonas did? Or a better Republican Roman list (together with manipular movement) that Allen Curtis did? BTW, how many current rule systems actually try to represent the maneuvering of maniples? The successor books (by ex-GW employees) like W+C and COE have great support including many army lists, questions on tactics,rules clarifications, etc. Mister Tibbles agrees with you, but I think he rather makes my point for me. MT still likes to play WMA the best, but I wonder how he would feel if GW never did publish the Warmaster Army lists book? |
Henry Martini | 02 Feb 2015 6:52 p.m. PST |
If you've got it and you want to use it, use it. Thats a weird analogy, Bowman. How do figures purchased today differ functionally or mechanically from any you might have purchased in say, 1998, when WAB was released? If there's an army you want to use that was never blessed with an official list in an official supplement, create something unofficial. It's not as though there aren't scores of unofficial lists in existence already, plus lists for other games that can be translated into WABese, and masses of books in which you can research the historical background yourself. This 'I can't do it unless it derives from the publisher/manufacturer' mindset seems to be a product of the corporate 'spoon feeding' commercial paradigm within which many younger gamers entered the hobby. Perhaps progressing beyond it is an indicator of hobby maturity. |
VP1818 | 03 Feb 2015 9:43 p.m. PST |
Thank you all for the responses! |
keyhat | 04 Feb 2015 1:29 p.m. PST |
I'll second the post that stated FoG is still the main game on the Gulf Coast. There is a fairly active group (SMAC) that holds several events a year and has for several years running. In addition, the last time I looked, FoG was still being played in Austin at Great Hall Games. If you want to play more of a detailed or "simulation" type of ancients game ( e.g. differences in opposing armor ratings matter, sword vs. spear interactions change with terrain and disorganization, charge combat is handled differently than melee, etc.) then FoG is hands down the winner. But a FoG game takes 3.5 to 4 hours, which is twice as long as most players seem to want to spend. Also the rules take a bit more study than it's "competitors", and Osprey turned a lot of people off with the way it released FoG 2. Hence it's popularity has waned somewhat in the last couple of years as a simpler, quick play type ruleset seems to pop up every 6 months. The testimony to the core system's strength lies in the fact that FoGR has been a very popular rule set for the Musket and Pike players for several years now. Of the more recent, simpler Ancients entries, Le Art de Guerre, (older French game recently translated into English) seems a little more detailed than the rest, although I have just read the rules and not played it. |
TodCreasey | 05 Feb 2015 12:35 p.m. PST |
FoG died out here, DBMM is catching on (although it is a bit fiddly) and DBA 3.0 has been generally well received. For us as we get a fair number of new members we only go for rulesets they can still buy. |
Drusilla1998 | 05 Feb 2015 1:35 p.m. PST |
Our group in New Jersey has been playing DBMM, for almost two years and I must say, the rules play beautifully. With that said, they are very detailed and not so easy to read, so it helps to play them with an opponent who does have some experience with the rules. Some of us are now trying, L'Art de La Guerre and there will be a tournament at Cold Wars. From what I have read, there may be as many as 24 players, which tells me that many of the FoG players, have gone over to L'Art De La Guerre. Lou |