| Tango01 | 28 Jan 2015 10:30 p.m. PST |
… Officials Were Against Then Sec. of State Clinton's Rush To War In Libya. "Top Pentagon officials and a senior Democrat in Congress so distrusted Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton's 2011 march to war in Libya that they opened their own diplomatic channels with the Gadhafi regime in an effort to halt the escalating crisis, according to secret audio recordings recovered from Tripoli…"
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| goragrad | 28 Jan 2015 11:59 p.m. PST |
Pity they weren't successful… |
| vtsaogames | 29 Jan 2015 9:09 a.m. PST |
Remember the Marine barracks in Beirut. |
| emckinney | 29 Jan 2015 10:14 a.m. PST |
Wow. A whole one Democrat in Congress. |
| 15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 29 Jan 2015 10:18 a.m. PST |
Gaddafi was a tin-pot dictator, but he was hardly the worst when he was toppled in 2011. Reviled in the 1980's for his terrorist sponsorship, including a discotheque bombing in Berlin which resulted in an F-111 airstrike on Tripoli and Benghazi, plus a couple of air-to-air engagements with the USN during which Tomcats shot down MiG-23's and SU-22's, Gaddafi subsequently cleaned up his act, improved relations with the west, and Libya was taken off the list of states which sponsored terrorism in 2006. Sacha Baron Cohen even lampooned him in the 2012 movie 'The Dictator,' which made him into a lovable schmuck believe it or not. But yeah, I had a bad feeling about the Arab Spring movement "sweeping through" the ME at the time. |
 Legion 4   | 29 Jan 2015 2:36 p.m. PST |
Remember the Marine barracks in Beirut.
I do … the IDF just KIA'd the son link of Imad Mughniyah link the planner of the USMC and French Para Barracks destroyed in '83. link I only wish he was alive to see it … Then was fried shorty afterwards … May they roast in pieces … I didn't forget … |
| Deadone | 29 Jan 2015 3:27 p.m. PST |
But yeah, I had a bad feeling about the Arab Spring movement "sweeping through" the ME at the time.
So did I. The Arab world lacks the civil society, national loyalty and other trappings of modern states, let alone democratic states. Tunisia seems to be the only one to have escaped largely intact after its revolution. Libya, Yemen and Syria have got civil war out of it (and Iraq's been dragged into it, Bahrain had a violent crackdown (supported by UAE and Saudi troops) and Egypt was destabilised and the revolution quashed by a coup but now a low level Islamist insurgency has picked up steam. |
| Legion 4 | 29 Jan 2015 3:30 p.m. PST |
The Arab world lacks the civil society, national loyalty and other trappings of modern states, let alone democratic states. It would certainly appear so in many cases … |
| mandt2 | 29 Jan 2015 10:04 p.m. PST |
Since when did Libya become a Hillary thing? I thought it was an "Obama" thing. Oh wait. I get it. Obama can't run for president again so why waste a trumped up scandal on him. Okay, this line from the story itself: "…a senior Democrat in Congress so distrusted Secretary of State Hillary Rodham…" I am shocked, absolutely shocked that a senior Democrat in congress distrusts Hillary. What a joke. I'd be willing to bet that the left-most one third of the Democrats in Congress don't trust her. In fact, is anyone here really naive enough to think that any member of Congress really trusts any other member of Congress as far a they can spit? Pity they weren't successful… So, you would prefer that Gadhafi still be alive? Gaddafi subsequently cleaned up his act, improved relations with the west, and Libya was taken off the list of states which sponsored terrorism in 2006. He was a mass murderer, and terrorist. He admitted and even boasted that he was behind the Lockerbee bombing. Remember Abdelbaset al-Megrahi? He was the Libyan terrorist who was convicted of planting the bomb. Remember also when the Scots released him because he was allegedly days from death with cancer. When he got off the plane in Libya he was given a hero's welcome by Gaddafi. Gaddafi was a terrorist and murderer, and in America we have no Statute of Limitations on murder. He got what he deserved. I'm sorry Reagan didn't get him back then. Remember Benghazi … Remember Iraq 2003, WMDs, "…the whole thing is about to collapse (paraphrased)," 4000 Americans dead. But yeah, always sooooo easy to just play the "your source sucks" card, isn't it? It is when the source sucks. Seriously, the National Enquirer? So it was the National Enquirer that broke the Edwards story? Okay, so out of of hundreds of editions of the NE you actually found one story they got right. And that makes them a source that doesn't suck? But as I already indicated, I don't doubt that Clinton is distrusted. And it being an election cycle, and Hillary is currently the Democratic front runner, I am certain that her rivals and opponents will make certain that it will be picked up by other sources…that don't suck…much. |
| COL Scott ret | 30 Jan 2015 10:36 a.m. PST |
I do not like the Enquirer any more than I like the NYT but their muck raking and sensationalism has dragged quite a few stories to the top so that other sources can repeat them. The truth is still the truth even if told by someone you don't like. Truth is not relative it is absolute- either it happened or not. |
| 15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 30 Jan 2015 11:14 a.m. PST |
He was a mass murderer, and terrorist. He admitted and even boasted that he was behind the Lockerbee bombing. Remember Abdelbaset al-Megrahi? He was the Libyan terrorist who was convicted of planting the bomb. Remember also when the Scots released him because he was allegedly days from death with cancer. When he got off the plane in Libya he was given a hero's welcome by Gaddafi. Gaddafi was a terrorist and murderer, and in America we have no Statute of Limitations on murder. He got what he deserved. I'm sorry Reagan didn't get him back then. Of course he got what he deserved and there's no 'statute of limitations' on murder, but then that would also apply to Saddam Hussein and Bashar al-Assad. Saddam is dead, but Assad isn't. The feeling is that sometimes leaving a dictator alone may be the "lesser of two evils" in evidence of the fact that the ME is more unstable than ever. IS and AQ would not be running roughshod in Iraq if Hussein wasn't deposed on the pretext of non-existent WMD's. I realize that "hindsight is always 20/20," but maybe the unintended consequences of our past interventions will make us consider such "regime change" actions more carefully in the future. But somehow I doubt it. |
| Weasel | 30 Jan 2015 12:23 p.m. PST |
There was plenty of opposition in both parties and from independents. I mean hell, when is the last time you could find Ron Paul, Kucinich and Ralph Nader agreeing on something? |
| darthfozzywig | 30 Jan 2015 1:06 p.m. PST |
I mean hell, when is the last time you could find Ron Paul, Kucinich and Ralph Nader agreeing on something? Dunno, but it probably involves Atlantis or secret Nazi moon bases. |
| Lion in the Stars | 30 Jan 2015 4:52 p.m. PST |
The feeling is that sometimes leaving a dictator alone may be the "lesser of two evils" in evidence of the fact that the ME is more unstable than ever. IS and AQ would not be running roughshod in Iraq if Hussein wasn't deposed on the pretext of non-existent WMD's. Oh, there were WMDs in Iraq, all right. Just no WMDs that went kaBOOOM! with a side order of mushroom clouds. |
| Legion 4 | 31 Jan 2015 9:23 a.m. PST |
When it comes to Nucs … it a 0 – Sum game. By the time you know the enemy has them, it may be too late …
Remember Iraq 2003, WMDs, "…the whole thing is about to collapse (paraphrased)," 4000 Americans dead. I do … I have been saying lately, that GWII was an error … But re-read my first sentences of this post. Regardless … who would have thought that Saddam would be the lesser of "evils" ? Deash or Saddam … you choose … |
finds bridges to match the river sets.
