SgtPain | 27 Jan 2015 3:15 p.m. PST |
I usually do not post links to news articles, however I found this one very interesting and thought some of you might find it interesting. Apparently the team that manages the conservation of HMS victory, is having issues with rotten wood, caused by the ships exposure to the elements. link |
JimDuncanUK | 27 Jan 2015 3:19 p.m. PST |
Visited her a few years ago and she was bad enough then, some of the cannons are fibre glass. Ironic that the Victory is a victim of the weather (read rain) and that the Mary Rose next door is kept perpetually wet to preserve her. |
Legbiter | 27 Jan 2015 3:25 p.m. PST |
I live in Portsmouth and interact with folk who work on preserving the ships, and it's quite a complex business, not always done justice by news articles, which, to be fair, tend to appear when funds are problematic. Far be it from me to prejudice such projects. I'll just add that IMO the best of the ships is the Warrior. Visit them all, and her last, to see why I think so! |
Blutarski | 27 Jan 2015 3:56 p.m. PST |
There was an article recently making the rounds that the organization retained to perform the restoration and maintenance work proved embarrassingly ignorant and incompetent and was itself responsible for a number of the problems. Maybe they need to call in the Swedes. B |
JimDuncanUK | 27 Jan 2015 4:46 p.m. PST |
Second the comments on the Warrior. A cracking exhibit! |
Mako11 | 27 Jan 2015 5:14 p.m. PST |
A shame, but nothing lasts forever. |
45thdiv | 27 Jan 2015 5:23 p.m. PST |
I have followed the Mary Rose since it was raised. I have been to see it many times over the years. The new building was closed may of 2012 and just found out it will be closed again this year. I will wait to make my plans to visit again in a few years. I love the boiler room in the Warrior. There is just something about that huge section of the ship that is very inspiring. Head down there. After a long night on watch in the cold. Matthew |
platypus01au | 27 Jan 2015 6:11 p.m. PST |
Is it still worth seeing? I'll be in Portsmouth in early June. I was going to spend a moring seeing the Victory and the Mary Rose. Is there anything else in Portsmouth I should see? John |
Tommy20 | 27 Jan 2015 8:16 p.m. PST |
As mentioned, don't forget Warrior. On my next trip there I have to build in time for Fort Nelson. |
jowady | 27 Jan 2015 9:47 p.m. PST |
It seems as though part of the problem has been trying to preserve her "on the cheap". It seems almost as though the hull planking is almost plywood as opposed to single planking. I am fairly familiar with restorations done to Constitution and the Charles W Morgan and while the hull planking has been very expensive it follows the original construction of the ship. The fact that it is wood used during the last thirty years that is deteriorating the most is troubling. It indicates the need to return to the traditional planking on the ship. |
David Manley | 27 Jan 2015 11:19 p.m. PST |
"…call in the Swedes…" Don't be fooled into thinking they got it right. They have made some pretty serious errors in the preservation of the Wasa that risks the ship's future and which are very expensive to rectify. "some of the cannon are fibre glass" Thats a pretty common feature of older preserved ships. Why strain the hull when you don't have to? |
Blutarski | 28 Jan 2015 3:52 a.m. PST |
Found the article - link Not a pretty story. B |
Westmarcher | 28 Jan 2015 4:34 a.m. PST |
Agreed you can't scimp with these things. You've got to use the best otherwise you'll pay for it in the long run. Will get to the point of course where it will almost be "Trigger's broom" and if / when it does, will the Theseus paradox apply (i.e., is it still the same ship)? ["Trigger" was a character in BBC TV's "Only Fools and Horses" who got an award for keeping the same broom for 20 years. A clip …… youtube.com/watch?v=BUl6PooveJE ] [The Theseus paradox raises the question of whether an object which has had all of its components replaced remains fundamentally the same object] |
Mac1638 | 28 Jan 2015 5:48 a.m. PST |
Comparing Victory and Warrior is like comparing chalk and cheese. One is out of the water and built out of oak and still on the Royal Naval list. The other is in water and built out of iron and teak lay off in 1925. The main problems is with the restoration work? carried out in the 1920's The restoration carried out over the last 20 year is of the highest quality. As with anything make of wood and 250 years old it needs constant maintenance and funds. |
Joppyuk | 28 Jan 2015 6:26 a.m. PST |
I thought the 'Victory' was still on the Navy's roll?, and that some £20.00 GBPM was put in trust for her upkeep. I may have the wrong end of the stick here though, |
bwanabill | 28 Jan 2015 8:24 a.m. PST |
I visited Portsmouth just this past April. I you go, you must see Victory, Warrior, and the Mary Rose museum. It must be my untrained eye, but Victory looked great to me. Of course, the further down you go into the ship the darker it gets. I did not want to touch anything so I had no idea that any of the guns were fiberglass. Also, the day I was there was Spring Break time for all of Europe apparenty and Victory was swarming with French school children that were constantly under-foot. The children all using learning activity books while they were exploring the ship. The irony of this was not lost on me. Warrior also looked stunningly beautiful and appeared to be in "ship-shape" to me. The Mary Rose museum is amazing and seeing what is left of the ship is amazing. The whole thing is an enormous time capsule with numerous artifacts that were recovered from the wreck. They even have reconstructions of the heads of two crew members, and the ship's dog! If done properly, an entire day should be spent at Portsmouth. I only had half the day and had to rush through too quickly. |
Great War Ace | 28 Jan 2015 10:04 a.m. PST |
The USA equivalent would be "Old Ironsides", the Constitution. How much of it remains as the original ship? How much was changed to keep her "on record"? Either spend the money and expertise to preserve them, or let them go. On the fiberglass guns: WTH? Who came up with that one back when? Might as well not have "guns" at all, if they are not real and capable of being fired. Imho…. |
SgtPain | 28 Jan 2015 12:39 p.m. PST |
Just a guess on my part, I assume the real guns replaced with fiberglass ones to reduce weight and stress on the hull and decks. |
dantheman | 28 Jan 2015 3:48 p.m. PST |
SgtPain. You are right. The guns are fiberglass to preserve the hull. Dave is right. The Wasa is also loosing strength with structural deformation. Considering the size of the ship, and lack of precedent on preserving a ship dug up from the sea bottom, they are doing the best they can. Mary Rose will benefit from their lessons as they used a similar preservation method. Big difference between Constitution and Victory is that one is afloat and one is in dry dock. That does make a difference. Also, Constitution is constantly being 'restored', at least as much as Victory. |
devsdoc | 28 Jan 2015 4:48 p.m. PST |
We are lucky to have her still. She is what the R.N. stand for. To see her masts from out-side the dock-yard (When they are all standing!), makes your heart pound. As one walks down the road in the dock-yard and you see her stern frist and more of her as you walk closer is a thing to see and feel. We MUST not lose her. The new building of the "Mary Rose" is not the best, but inside is very good. It will be better in a year or two when the glass wall comes down and she and the artifacts can come together again. We are I hope getting better at looking after our history, not good enough as yet, but hopefully! Spend a day in the dock-yard and a day around Portsmouth is the only way to see most of what is around. Be safe Rory |
Blutarski | 28 Jan 2015 6:13 p.m. PST |
Great War Ace – USS Constitution is in (or very soon to be in) drydock for a refit anticipated to take about three years. The USN does take VERY good care of her. Devsdoc – I pass within distant view of Constitution's berth every day on the way to work and the sight of her masts on the skyline still impress me. The interesting thing is that when a big blow is expected to pass over Boston, they will strike down her topgallants. It's still a living ship in many ways. B |
Mac1638 | 29 Jan 2015 4:33 a.m. PST |
When I was on my Honeymoon in September 2009," New England in the fall". We visited the USS Constitution, she was in "ordinary" and was being refitted for 2012.We had a wonderfull day on her and in the Museum. When on the Constitution I ask a question about the 24pdrs on her, the guide was unable to but the officer of the watch informed me. The question was, how come on all the 24pdrs aboard her why do they have a the royal cypher of King George III on them ? I received a interesting reply, when they where looking to restore her in the 1920s to her 1812 condition there where no drawing and only limited information on her, so they asked if the British if had any information or any drawing that would help, they did. After capturing the USS President (the sister to Constitution) the British made a full set of drawings, So on the drawing it shows the 24pdrs with the RG III cypher on them, the Royal Navy had her re-gunned after being captured with there own guns. So the USS Constitution had new iron guns cast with the GR III cypher on them. The Officer of the watch informed me they where going to grind them off before 2012, to save embarrassment. I wonder if it has happened ? |
Tommy20 | 29 Jan 2015 8:52 a.m. PST |
No, it hasn't. I saw the cypher last summer & asked the same question! |
Whatisitgood4atwork | 29 Jan 2015 11:57 a.m. PST |
Fascinating little tidbit about the Royal Cypher. Thanks guys. Good to see the RN helping the USN out too, and it is a lovely little touch that the loss of the USS President to the enemy led to help from a friend so many years later. |
Whatisitgood4atwork | 29 Jan 2015 12:00 p.m. PST |
["Trigger" was a character in BBC TV's "Only Fools and Horses" who got an award for keeping the same broom for 20 years.] I think every country has a similar story. In NZ, we hear and sometimes tell a tall story about Captain Cook's axe, purportedly traded to and preserved by an (unnamed) Maori tribe as a treasured heirloom. You can guess the punchline; which is the axe has had 10 new handles and 5 new heads over the years, but it is still the same axe. |
Kevin in Albuquerque | 29 Jan 2015 7:18 p.m. PST |
I sincerely hope that the English get that wonderful treasure taken care of. I have a fond dream, alright it's pure fantasy, of Constitution and Victory at sea side by side under full sail. What a photo op! |
Mac1638 | 30 Jan 2015 5:54 a.m. PST |
It is a very remote Fantasy Victory has been out of the water since the 1920s. A more achievable fantasy but sill very remote is, Trincomalee and the Constitution. HMS Trincomalee is in Hartlepool restored and afloat, she is a 38 gun (46 with carronades) Leda class frigate launched in 1817. |
Old Slow Trot | 03 Feb 2015 7:51 a.m. PST |
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DeRuyter | 03 Feb 2015 11:10 a.m. PST |
I have seen Constitution under sail and hope to one day be onboard for one of her annual turn around cruises of the harbor. They'll re start the passenger lottery once she is out of drydock. |
11th ACR | 03 Feb 2015 12:52 p.m. PST |
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