"1960s and 1970s M113 Mech Co. TO&Es?" Topic

I've been trying to refresh my knowledge on this subject, and ran across a couple of different references for the number of M113s in a mechanized infantry company.

I presume that may be due to changing TO&Es over time.

I know the Tank companies back in the day, consisted of 2 tanks in the HQ, and then 3 platoons of five tanks each – 17 total.

I seem to recall that similarly, the Mech Inf. platoons also had five vehicles each (the early Bundeswehr units were similarly equipped as above, too), and with one HQ vehicle.

That makes 16 x M113s in a company (or Marders for the BW), presumably consisting of 3 x platoons of five APCs each. I presume one for the Plt HQ, 3 x Rifle Squads, and one for the Heavy Weapons Sqd., carrying the two M-60 machine guns, and the one recoilless rifle (assuming the MGs weren't parceled out to the rifle squads like some did).

Attached to that, apparently, were 3 x M125 Mortar Carriers (81mm mortars in modified M113s), and 2 x M150s with TOWs (M113 ATGM vehicles). Not sure when they added the M150s to the unit(s).

Supposedly, too, the M125 section also had a M577 Fire Direction Controller as well, but I'm not 100% sure about that, since I only saw it mentioned once, and it seems to be frequently omitted in some discussions on the Mech Co. TO&Es. Perhaps because the people discussing the subject were only asking about M113s (I know initially some FOOs used the M113s, but were later upgraded to M577s, as they became available).

Does anyone know when the M150s went into service (presumably 1970, or later, since the TOW went into service then), and if any other M113s were in the Heavy Weapons Platoon before they were made available (perhaps with the 106mm recoilless rifles, instead)?

Does that sound correct?

Also, later, I ran across a 14 x M113 Mech Company reference. I was surprised to see this, since previously I was only aware of the 16 and 13 x M113 units.

Presumably, that would mean 2 x HQ vehicles (one for the commander, and a second for his XO, and/or for a company FOO), and 3 x platoons of 4 M113s each.

Is that correct?

In the 1980s (around 1984, I think), I know that the M113 Mech Co. only had 13 x tracks. One in the HQ, and 3 x platoons of four vehicles each.

Is that correct?

Anyone know when the Mech Companies changed from 16, to 14, to 13 vehicles, and when the M150s were introduced to the Mech. companies, in Europe?

Also, I guess, while we're on the subject, it appears that the M113s carried 11 men (one driver, and one gunner/TC, plus 9 dismounts). Thought I'd provide that as an FYI to others. Platoons in the H-Series orgs were five vehicles in each (at least for the tank units, and I suspect, for the Mech. Infantry platoons as well).

That is for the H-Series organizations (and perhaps earlier orgs as well – I think the H-Series was established around 1970).

I know there was an E-Series org., so perhaps an F-Series and G-Series too (not to be confused with the old WWII-era units which were similarly labeled).

When they switched to the J-Series Orgs (4 vehicles per platoon), the number of men in the M113s dropped to 9 men (2 vehicle crew, plus 7 dismounts).

My J Series had 14 M113s. 3 Plts of 4 each and 2 Cmd Tracks. One for the Cdr(me !) and one for the XO.

M113s carried 11 men (one driver, and one gunner/TC, plus 9 dismounts).

Yes that is the way we did it. The Company also had an AT Section of 2 M901 ITVs, an M35 2&1/2 ton Cgo Truck, and M151 1/4 ton "Jeep", later replaced with a Hummer. We converted from H to J about '85 …

Thanks for the reply, Legion 4.

Very useful info as well, about the M901, and other vehicles too.

Did the M113s in your unit drop from 11 to 9 men, with the conversion?

I ask because I've also seen mention of manpower shortages in the army, especially previously, in the 1960s and 1970s, so wonder if that wasn't part of the issue as well. Perhaps a lot of units were understrength, already, at the squad level.

However, I assume by around the mid 1980s that probably would have been less of an issue, due to the weak economy then, so expect more people signed up for the military then.

I see various timelines listed for the changeover, e.g. from 1984 – 1986, or so.

The US Army in Europe from 68 to 73 was basically a replacement depot for Vietnam. Once the war and the draft ended, the Army depended on volunteers who would put up with little pay, lousy living conditions and leadership (or lack thereof) provided by McNamara's 100,000. It was the employer of last resort during a decade of double digit unemployment, but still couldn't fill their ranks, no matter how far they lowered enlistment standards. By 1982, the change to a recruited Army began to fill up the ranks with motivated, well educated troops, but shortages still existed into 83 or so.

Very useful info as well, about the M901, and other vehicles too.

Well I signed for everything !

Did the M113s in your unit drop from 11 to 9 men, with the conversion?

In both the Mech Bn I served in the ROK '84-'85, and the Mech Bn/Bde at Benning '86-'90, we stayed at 11 troops per Sqd. My Mech Co. was authorized 112. But we had dropped to 98 at so on occasions. But throw in sick/lame, those on Special Duty, Temporary Duty, Schools, Leaves, etc., etc. on any given day a Sqd could be 8-9 or less. Another thing to note, when I was a Rifle Plt Ldr in the 101 '80-'81. The Company was short a whole Rifle Plt. We had 2 Inf Plts and a Mortar Plt. Half the time we didn't have a Mortar Plt Ldr. So when they went to the range to live fire. The other Inf Plt Ldr and I would take turns being their Plt Ldr. But the mortar crews and NCOs knew what to do. Regs said you had to have an officer on the range to fire. Note both the 101 and the Mech unit, the 197th Mech Brigade, I served with were part of the Rapid Deployment Forces, the 18th Airborne Corps. Also no unit under Bn level had an M577. Really didn't need it. Besides it would stick out as a command track. And at Co. level that close to the front, you don't want that. We also had attached from HHC, a Medic Track(M113), a Maint. Tm with a M113 and M578 LTRV link , and a FIST/FO M113 from an FA Bn. If we got a Stinger Tm from an ADA unit, which was rare. They ended up in one of the command or even FIST tracks.

Thanks for the additional info.

Glad to help !

Hey Legion, did you guys have M249s when you were CO? like two per squad like now? I heard recentaly about a version (?) of the M16 that was used by the automatic rifleman in the fire teams, but I'm not sure when that ended and the SAW was adopted.

Also, did your battalion have a M901 company?