"Upcoming New 15mm Range of ECW" Topic

Hi Guys,

just starting out on the long journey of planning and putting out a range of miniatures in 15mm from the English Civil War.

Still in the early planning stage, looking for any and all input, all ideas taken on board.

So, if you wish to come along and join in…. Follow the link below!

link

The first thing I'd ask is, given the number of good quality ranges out there already, why are you starting another?

I am *not* trying to throw cold water on the project but ask what need these will fill? Will they be closer to 18mm? Will they be "true 15s?" Will they be slimmer or chunkier or easier to paint?

That said, remember the grunt infantry and cavalry will be 70% of your sales and 100% of your profit – it is very, very hard to make money on the special bits like command and specialists (the sculpting costs make the break evens on those packs very high).

If I were going to do a range I'd go for 18mm in the style of AB/Eureka as that is a niche that might do well.

These will be around the "AB" scale of things. The releases will of core units to start with.

More than anything, it is a subject I like and would love to get onto the market.

Plenty of brilliant sculpts at the 25/28mm range but not many at the 15mm scale.

I am not saying my range will be better than any other or knocking any others ranges either.

Would you consider the slightly later period from 1650 to 1699 – the Wars of Louis XIV. There are very few 15/18mm ranges covering those wars.

Just a suggestion

Make sure you make plenty of infantry in monteros – for some reason this headgear (despite being quintessentially English) seems to get neglected in 15/18mm.

Khurusan, and now Eureka as well, are already covering the pre- and early WSS period pretty well in this scale/size – I think you're right to focus on ECW.

I am open to all suggestions, click the link and join my page/discussion guys.

Brogile, ECW is the starting point and a successful launch will result in expanding and a unfunded KS will result in me sulking and blaming everyone else for months.

Broglie;

I'm curious as to why you feel that "There are very few 15/18mm ranges covering those wars." for the 1650 to 1699 period?

For the earlier period there are many available figures from Minifigs, Essex, Old Glory and Donnington (a specific Louis XIV range). There are also the newer ranges from Wargamer (Gdansk Militia and others) that work well for Eastern Europe (The Deluge period) and early Turkenkreig, and some of the Khurasan figures from their new 30YW range will work along with their re-released Testudo figures.

For the later wars, primarily LoA or Nine Years War, there are at last count (that I'm aware, there may be more) 10 ranges. These include Editions Brokaw and Hallmark (small); Donnington, Essex, M.Y. Miniatures, Irregular, Lurkio and Khurasan (medium); Lancashire and Venexia (large). While some of these sculpts are dated, or may not be your preferred style, it is still a bit misleading to say there are "…very few 15/18mm ranges…".

Some of these ranges, both early and late, are small ranges with few figure types or poses available, and some are very wide ranges with multiple poses and types. Several of these ranges will mix together both in separate units and, in a very few cases, will mix in the same unit. When I did my 80YW French for the Battle of the Dunes I had units with figures from Old Glory, Donnington and Essex happily mixed together in the army. I also added some newer units with some of the larger Donningtons mixed with Khurasan and Testudo. I personally prefer the earlier ranges in this case, but the newer larger ones work as well.

Sincerely,

Bill

Competition is the essence of the free market system (capitalism). This is a good thing. Let the market decide who has the best figures at the best prices and let that company flourish. Good luck to you. Also, I think the Scot Covenater Army could be better represented figure wise that what I see out there. My opinion.

Bill

I had not realised that there were so many ranges.

I will have a look at some of the manufacturers' websites you mentioned. I did start to collect Venexia before they went out of business although I am hopeful they will be released again. I have not seen any Old Glory figures for the period. Minifigs and Essex are not to my taste and Donnington;'s are still the old series and a little dated.

The other ranges I am not familiar with at all.

Sorry for any inconvenience.

Regards

Can't give you and feed back on facebook, I refuse to join, however if I could make the choice for you my personal choice would be 1670 – 1700 (League of Augsberg), only because that's the era I collect, with ECW I may support you on kickstarter as I beleive both periods need a new well designed large size 15mm figure range,produced in Europe, and I think both would find a good base of support

MrDilly – Thank you!

49Mountain – Nothing is off the table at this point, I don't want to start a half arsed project without planning it from start til completion.

Perhaps Mr. Dilly has expressed it better than I did.

Thank you Mr. Dilly

Broglie;

No inconvenience Sir, just puzzled by the statement and wanted to share info. It took me awhile, but I finally found some old pics that I took of one of my French commanded shot groups for the Dunes. This unit has a mix of Museum ECW, Old Glory TYW, Donnington TYW and Louis XIV ranges, and I think they rank up fairly well for the 80YW.

the front:

and back:

As to the LoA, I don't have shots of the M.Y Miniatures (Mick Yarrow), the Lurkio or the Khurasan, but here are some comparison shots that I took a couple of years ago.

Officers

Musketeers

and Drummers

And here are some shots of command figures from Mick Yarro flanked by a Donnington officer waving his hat and an Irregular sergeant with halberd. The "rebel" figures are on the left and the three on the right are "government" troops. I didn't wash the M.Y. figures, which I should have, but they fit great with the two brands shown as well as Lurkio and Khurasan.

Hope these help Sir. My new favorite range is Khurasan's, even though it is still slightly incomplete. The figures are very nice and they mix perfectly with Irregular (one of Ian Kay's best ranges IMHO), Lurkio and selected Essex and Donnington. Here was Khurasan's post with preview pics when it first came out.

TMP link

Yours,

Bill

Many thanks again Bill.

I have now discovered your website where there is a comprehensive review of 15mm figures.

Regards

Bill
I agree there is a fair amount of figures out there, however, importing stuff from outside the EU as a private buyer can be prohibitively expensive, thanks to our excise staff finding it too difficult to tackle Amazon, Starbucks and Vodaphone to name but 3 and hitting honest people.

So thats Khurasan and Edition Brokaw out, of the others the best are Hallmark but are too small to mix with others.

Venexia are no longer produced.

Essex, I have quite a few in my collection but some of the stances are a bit fake and anotomically wrong, in my opinion.

Minifigs too static.

Lancashire Games too big, but also I don't like the sculpting and find them hard to paint.

Irregular can vary in size and quality but to me the biggest put off is the hats, just look wrong.

Donnington, nice figures but small range and could do with updating, also can vary in size.

MY too chunky, again my opinion.

Lurkio figures are nice but they are sold in FOG packs and lack some command figures as well as having some uniform faults check out their French dragoons.

One you've missed is Matchlock Miniatures, again very good figures, but very small range and the molds are old so quite a few figures are badly molded

Now if Khurasans Late 17th C range was as good as their Marlburian ones I'd be pestering some wholesalers to stock them

I would also suggest you raise this topic on the LoA forum
leagueofaugsburg.com

And may I humbly requst any pike/standard bearer/lancer figures that are designed are done so open handed there are plenty of these on the market that don't bend and break.

Khurasan dismounted dragoons standard bearer is a horse holder, the officer is a matchlok miniature

Irish Guards from Essex led by a Bluemoon preist

Irish Dragoons by Essex

I as others have stated would recommend league of Augsburg, this is a period that is sadly overlooked, and the French were real Dynamos in these campaigns. Or…… Have you considered a dedicated great northern war line. .?

It has Russians, I couldn't resist, Or maybe the 1612 wars in Eastern Europe. Good god I sound like talk radio……

@Panzerfaust Miniatures;

WOW! We have certainly hijacked your thread Sir, my apologies!

With regard to your original post topic: A new ECW range, larger 18mm sizing, a topic that you say you have a personal passion for, all of these are good things in my opinion. As to how well it would sell or if a KickStarter would fund adequately, well that will depend on many factors:

1. You would, of course, have to have some lovely test shots or greens available, photographed very well to entice the masses.

2. You would also need to offer a broad variety of well-researched figures, hopefully something that nobody else has, or at least a better-done version of an unusual subject.

3. Once cast (even as masters/samples) you would need to engage a very good painter (helps if someone recognizes his name, silly, but it does) to do samples for photography, again GOOD photography.

4. You would need to hit every conceivable web site, magazine, user forum dedicated to the period, and Yahoo user group dedicated to the period for maximum publicity. Or, simply manage to get Tango interested and he'll do it for you, probably with duplication.

5. Finally, when all is said and done, it will come down to the personal tastes of the potential customers and whether the period is "hot" at that moment, or at least has some staying power to justify your investment and continued operation. And, unfortunately, whether the buyers in the UK and EU are willing to pay post and VAT, or whether the buyers in the US are willing to pay what we think are outrageous Royal Mail costs or the currency conversion costs; r.e., how strong is the dollar vs the pound at the time.

Obviously from the comments that you received, including my own, there is interest in the 1660 to 1699 period. There are already several suppliers of figures, but they don't all meet with mass approval. As recently as yesterday Jon at Khurasan communicated to me that he is already "sitting on" a backlog of additional figures for his Late 17th Century range but will not produce them at this time. He may not produce them anytime in the near future. The reason? The existing range is not selling, simple math on his part even though he does have some passion for this period. There are probably many reasons why the range, one that I consider to be a very good start on the period, isn't selling. No doubt the availability in the UK and EU is a factor with the post and VAT issues. It is also true that the Late 17th Century collection isn't quite as good as the WSS range which he released close to the same time frame, and which does enjoy a bit more support in the gaming community. The WSS may be some of the best that Mike Broadbent has done.

Ultimately Jon is in a bit of a Catch-22 situation: He won't or can't release additional figures because the range is not selling; Potential buyers won't consider his range because it is too limited at the moment (no grenadiers with special headgear, no Austrian or Bavarian troops, no Spanish with the early uniform with "false" lapels). Who knows which way the wind will blow for Jon and Khurasan? He's certainly not dependent on that particular range selling to keep the doors open, at least for now.

So Panzerfaust Miniatures, will your proposed new ECW range fully-fund, or sell after the KickStarter? The truth is that even if dozens of us come on here now and tell you that we will mortgage the family manse to buy everything you produce, most of us won't. The ones that are truly interested in the period will buy a few to sample your wares, a few (if they like the photos and other's reviews, and you have a great intro deal or bundled special) will go ahead and commit to an "army" or two. Many will either order some sample packs, or just rely on photos or reviews to decide that "They just aren't right for ME" for as many reasons as there are fish in the seas. Good luck with your endeavor, I will follow the published progress and probably buy at least some to sample the wares.

Bill

Well said Bill

Good luck Steve

There's a full listing of 15mm Renaissance manufacturers on my website – it's linked from the front page, and has ratings of all of the ranges, so if you are surveying what's out there it may be a good place to start

Www.madaxeman.com

Tim

Madaxeman's site is a fab resource!

Just a personal opinion, while there are several ranges of great ECW figures out there, I'd like to see a range that has 'AB' quality sculpting and that fits in reasonably well in size with others, eg Minifigs, Essex, Matchlock.

The reason I'd avoid an '18mm' size is that I have a glacial painting speed and already have a fair number of figs painted from the above manufacturers, though of course never enough! For me, Naismith was too small but Donnington a shade too big (though I do have a couple of Donnington-only units).

As for subject areas ECW horse, dragoons, pike, shot and officers are likely the main sellers, but Covenanters, Scots Royalists, Highlanders with plenty of variety, Irish Confederates and Clubmen are all of interest.

Gentlemen;

If Panzerfaust will forgive me one more interruption of his original topic…

I was going through some of my notes since the original figure comparison and realize that my "list of 10" from my previous post is incorrect (other than Matchlock*).

Legio Heroica released some figures suitable for Louis XIV era armies in their "Vienna 1683 – The Imperial Army" range. This is a lovely small range, style somewhere in between Khurasan and Venexia, that can be used to form the bulk of a "generic" 1672 to mid-1680's army. The long, loose coats with lowered pockets and high cuffs (or false cuffs), the flat or floppy hat. There are no floppy aguillettes on the right shoulder to make definitive French, but these can either be fabricated or just painted on, or even ignored if the gamer wishes. The musketeers have matchlocks with "apostles" and with musket rests. I think the latter can be forgiven as these are supposed to depict Imperialist troops, Austrians or Germans, and they look like they can be trimmed off the firing poses. The loading pose doesn't appear to have a rest however, but the marching pose may be a problem; the figures are depicted marching with the matchlock in their left hand shouldered and the rest held vertically in the right, against the body and other detail that will make them a challenge to trim.

Musketeer Firing Line

Musketeer Marching

Infantry Command

Pikemen

They also offer some nice, generic, Dragoons, which will work for most non-helmeted cavalry of the era, on what look like very nice horses.

Dragoons w/sword

Dragoon w/pistol

Dragoon Command

It remains to be seen how these will mix with other makers. Earlier Legio Heroica figures that I have seen mixed fairly well with Essex and some Museum figures (medievals). If these are the same then they should mix fairly well with Khurasan and possibly with Lurkio, as well as some Essex (especially the cavalry).

Does anyone out there already have some of the LH 1683 figures? Can you give us a brief comparison?

Thanks!

Bill

Excellent web site madaxman.