Noble713 | 25 Jan 2015 12:34 p.m. PST |
From Zerohedge( link ):
As the following clip shows, a Ukrainian journalist approaches what she thinks is a Ukrainian soldier (since he is wearing a Ukrainian military uniform and is carrying an AK) and asked him as they run through the battlezone, "tell me, what happened here?" His response, which requires no translation, speaks for itself.Forward to 2:36 for the 'Ukrainian' soldier's response: youtu.be/kiwIUsX63Hk ZH makes some bold claims that it's a "US soldier". Definitely sounded like a North-Eastern US accent, but could easily be a Blackwater-type mercenary. Obviously a "volunteer", just like most of the Russian "volunteers" fighting for the Separatists, right? Not surprising but does muddy the picture somewhat about the nature of US aid to Ukraine in this conflict. |
kiltboy | 25 Jan 2015 12:44 p.m. PST |
Did you see him speak English or hear English spoken when he wasn't on camera? It would be very easy to splice in the audio to falsely claim that the person on camera was speaking English. I wouldn't trust the source myself as too many Russian sponsored stories have been utterly discredited. David |
Katzbalger | 25 Jan 2015 1:07 p.m. PST |
At first, I thought it sounded NYC, but on second listening, it sounded more Boston. Then, a third listening it was more Brit. Frankly, the clip of the soldier speaking is so short that it could be anything, including a sound splice as Kiltboy says. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if there were some English-speaking folks on both sides of the conflict and that doesn't mean they are there through the good services of Uncle Sam. Its not like they found a squad from 82nd Airborne wandering around in the Ukraine, claiming they were lost. Rob |
GeoffQRF | 25 Jan 2015 1:12 p.m. PST |
Bear in mind that many nations pick up their 'English' accents from watching British or American tv as well, so he could be from anywhere. Its not like they found a squad from 82nd Airborne wandering around in the Ukraine, claiming they were lost. Now I have to clear up my tea…. |
cwlinsj | 25 Jan 2015 1:24 p.m. PST |
I doubt that he's active military. It has already been established that there are American individuals fighting for both Ukraine and rebel forces. Plenty of video reports about them. Not a secret. |
panzersaurkrautwerfer | 25 Jan 2015 1:27 p.m. PST |
Not to mention there's a not-small number of folks who've traveled to the US to work, but return back to the home country after some years. The American accent is certainly a learned vs natural thing It's one of the standard Russian distraction tactics "HATO PARATROOPER DISCOVERED please pay no attention to this tank battalion crossing into the Ukraine." |
GeoffQRF | 25 Jan 2015 1:29 p.m. PST |
Actually I thought the accent was quite British |
Lt Col Pedant | 25 Jan 2015 1:33 p.m. PST |
Yes. Maybe he learned his English from a NE American? Years ago we had a French onion man who learned his English on Tyneside. He had a wonderful Franco-Geordie accent. |
boggler | 25 Jan 2015 1:54 p.m. PST |
He's not English, definately an American twang. |
JasonAfrika | 25 Jan 2015 2:22 p.m. PST |
Guys seriously? You are all wrong! That's a New Jersey accent if I ever heard one. South Jersey to be exact, Not New York, not Boston, not Philly. Pure Jersey. "Outtamyfacepleeze." Only we talk like that. |
cwlinsj | 25 Jan 2015 2:36 p.m. PST |
When does someone from Jersey say "please"? ;) |
GeoffQRF | 25 Jan 2015 4:05 p.m. PST |
"Outtamyfacepleeze." Only we talk like that. My (very English) teenage daughter says it… |
Daniel S | 25 Jan 2015 4:22 p.m. PST |
Hard to tell without proper equipment and analysis but the sound of the spoken English seems odd compared to the sound of the other voices heard in similar circumstances in the video. But could be that the reporter got lucky and got the microphone in the right position to get a very good recording. Given that foreign volunteers are fighting on both sides I'm not particularly surprised to hear spoken English. Get a reporter over to "Azov" and she/he could very well pick up some spoken Swedish on tape, doesn't mean that they were sent there by HM King Carl Gustav. Frankly the way that this clip is passed around the net reminds of the the video & pics that began circulation some days ago of "NATO" weapons captured at Donetsk Airport. Of course there was the odd coincidence that all of the weapons were of the very models that the Russians captured in huge numbers in Georgia including the Negev LMG. |
Mako11 | 25 Jan 2015 4:58 p.m. PST |
Couldn't be a Russian Spetznatz, or army trooper speaking English. Definitely not. Our troops and citizens get "vacation time" too, and it is easy to get lost when traveling in far off countries for the first time, so….. And, or course, we have lots of Ukrainian and Russian people here in the USA now, who may have decided to return home, and to take up arms, for one side, or the other. Yes, I agree, look over here at the lone trooper, while we sneak battalions of tanks, rocket launchers, self-propelled artillery pieces, and IFVs across the border over there. Tovarich, da? |
TunnelRat | 26 Jan 2015 6:33 a.m. PST |
For my mind that is a Brit talking, not US. |
IGWARG1 | 26 Jan 2015 7:20 a.m. PST |
That was Putin, getting involved in crucial American backyard. |
Legion 4 | 26 Jan 2015 11:11 a.m. PST |
Pretty sure who ever this guy is, was, whatever, is … dare I say, a "Lone Wolf" doing his thing independently … Or almost as likely as some have mentioned, it sounds like good old Russkie propaganda … Da ? |
GeoffQRF | 26 Jan 2015 11:44 a.m. PST |
…it sounds like good old Russkie propaganda In doubt? Nato and Ukrainian officials were meeting in Brussels to discuss the recent surge in fighting."The statement that there is a Nato legion in Ukraine is nonsense," Mr Stoltenberg said. "There is no Nato legion, the foreign forces in Ukraine are Russian." The Nato chief also urged Russia to stop providing backing to rebels, saying hundreds of pieces of advanced weaponry including tanks, heavy artillery and armoured vehicles had crossed the border. He was responding to comments that Mr Putin made to students in St Petersburg. "In effect, it is no longer an army but a foreign legion, in this case Nato's foreign legion, which does not of course pursue the aims of Ukraine's national interests," said the Russian president. I'm curious what those Ukrainian national interests are. Permitting Russia to annex a large portion and allowing a porous border that permits Russian servicemen to undertake military operations on Ukrainian territory is in Ukrainian interests… how precisely? |
Legion 4 | 26 Jan 2015 1:32 p.m. PST |
Which reminds me ! My favor Cold War Spy vs. Spy series, THE AMERICANS, starts on Weds night ! |
Deadone | 26 Jan 2015 4:31 p.m. PST |
Most likely an immigrant or son of immigrants. During the war in Yugoslavia, there were some 2nd generation "Croatians" from Australia who fought in Croatia. Some of them didn't even speak Croatian. Their parents were probably ex-Ustasha and pummeled Croatian nationalism into them, even though they were born and raised in Australia. As such their loyalty to the "old" country was greater than the country of their birth.
Most of the violent ones just displayed this Croatian nationalism by brawling with Serb nationalists at soccer games or petty vandalism. But some went to Croatia to fight and I don't doubt there Australians of Serbian and Bosnian ancestry fighting for them. We're having the same thing happen with some Muslims who are going back to Syria and Lebanon to fight.
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Whatisitgood4atwork | 26 Jan 2015 4:41 p.m. PST |
May be American, maybe not. Means nothing really. I have met plenty of folks who speak perfect American English who are not Americans. Mostly from the Philippines, but also Chinese from HK, Taiwan or the Mainland. A few years in the US as a child will do it, as will attending a good US school in their home country. I'm sure there are plenty of people from all over the world in the same boat. |
EJNashIII | 26 Jan 2015 5:08 p.m. PST |
I'm not surprised if JasonAfrica is correct. A few years back I played milsim paintball with a group of of Russians and Ukrainians from the Jersey and New York Area. I was the only non-European in the group. Interestingly enough, we fought under a old Soviet era Ukrainian banner that I got from a guy from Kiev. Some of the guys were ex-soviet military and I could easily see them volunteering. |
Mako11 | 26 Jan 2015 8:52 p.m. PST |
Perhaps our CIA, or Special Forces guys are just clever, and using a British accent to throw everyone "off the scent". Wasn't it something Sun Tzu said about, ah yes: "All warfare is based on deception". |
GeoffQRF | 27 Jan 2015 3:51 a.m. PST |
Assuming it was actually accurate, and not a poor dub (remarkable audio quality when you compare it to the reporter speaking into the microphone both before and after?)… well… let's give them the benefit of the doubt here. Let us assume that this is a US Special Forces operative, covertly working behind the scences in Ukraine, as Russia claims… …who is so professional he speaks in English directly in front of a reporter with camera team… I suspect it is again intended for the media restricted domestic market in Russia. |
Legion 4 | 27 Jan 2015 8:43 a.m. PST |
"All warfare is based on deception". Possibly no truer words were ever spoken … Let us assume that this is a US Special Forces operative, covertly working behind the scences in Ukraine, as Russia claims……who is so professional he speaks in English directly in front of a reporter with camera team… That is a possible scenario … but I still feel it may be just Russian propaganda for home consumption … Still …Them [former]KGB Russkie types are a sneaky lot ! |
Legion 4 | 27 Jan 2015 9:34 a.m. PST |
Just heard on CNN, the FBI in NYC just arrested some Russian spies ! Wow, we are more and more going back to the Cold War ! Cue Sting's song "Russians" > link |
GNREP8 | 27 Jan 2015 11:53 a.m. PST |
There is a whole world of Youtube footage that we never see on this – saw some recently of the treatment of Ukrainian POWs – handcuffed and being attacked by civilians who were blaming them for the Donetsk trolleybus atrocity. Whilst I don't doubt that Ukrainian forces probably also behave badly (esp the like of the volunteer units with their politically dubious motives), someone in cuffs being punched and kicked is still pretty low. I also have seen that on occasions people claimed to be captured Ukrainian troops are paraded through rebel streets in jeans and in one case a multi-coloured fleece – so either the Ukrainian forces are really badly equipped if people are sent to fight in red, white and blue fleeces or the rebels are taking their uniforms off them and putting them in cast offs (the people in question didn't look like SF guys who were operating in mufti etc) |
GNREP8 | 27 Jan 2015 12:10 p.m. PST |
Yes, I agree, look over here at the lone trooper, while we sneak battalions of tanks, rocket launchers, self-propelled artillery pieces, and IFVs across the border over there. Tovarich, da? --------------------- Whilst I generally am on Ukraine's side (as much as being a student of Russian history that i also understand Russia's centuries old concerns about its borders) it does seem a bit odd that aside from that group of paras, as far as I know no other Russian military personnel have been captured by the govt forces – whether that says something about the type of fighting I don't know/the role that Russian 'volunteers' undertake. |
GeoffQRF | 27 Jan 2015 12:20 p.m. PST |
…handcuffed and being attacked by civilians who were blaming them for the Donetsk trolleybus atrocity… We are aware from inside sources that in some cases these are staged media instances. Either the civilians are hyped up first with tales of baby beating/burning (enforced by the Russian-only media channels they receive) or they are actually externals brought in for the cameras… Whilst I don't doubt that Ukrainian forces probably also behave badly (esp the like of the volunteer units with their politically dubious motives)… Indeed, the politically motivated volunteer groups are controlled is probably the most dangerous and damaging part of the Ukrainian movement. …so either the Ukrainian forces are really badly equipped if people are sent to fight in red, white and blue fleeces or the rebels are taking their uniforms off them and putting them in cast offs Bit of both. Many of those going off to fight do not have complete uniforms, boots or body armour. Families have been gathering money and buying them personally off the internet to ship them to their sons. Poroshenko has recently (personally) bought NVGs. Of course once captured any equipment of any quality is requisitioned. …as far as I know no other Russian military personnel have been captured by the govt forces If you follow the Ukrainian sites, there are several instances of individuals with Russian service papers being captured. Russia actually does not deny their existence, merely denies that they are there operating in the service of Russia. It seems that Russian military service personnel are permitted to vacation in war zones, and even borrow their uniforms, webbing, guns, tanks… |
marcin2501 | 27 Jan 2015 2:15 p.m. PST |
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GNREP8 | 27 Jan 2015 4:12 p.m. PST |
thats not necessarily the same guy though? |
GeoffQRF | 27 Jan 2015 5:23 p.m. PST |
No, I think that is his mates saying its him, and he is indicating (I believe that is what it is called) that it is not. He actually appears to have been involved with working on the Thai/Burmese border, and I suspect his mates were taking the rip… Hello and welcome to Beyond The Borders. The purpose of this site is to give an in-depth account of my time I spend volunteering across the Thai/Burmese border in Karen state. In the past I have delivered medical supplies to the Karen and helped them with projects. |
GNREP8 | 27 Jan 2015 5:40 p.m. PST |
Though if he's a de-miner he's quite well armed and the kit he has looks more what you'd expect in Ukraine |
GeoffQRF | 27 Jan 2015 6:57 p.m. PST |
Don't think he is – the organisation is. He talks about delivering aid. Trying to decide if that kit is real. |
GeoffQRF | 28 Jan 2015 3:51 a.m. PST |
Whilst I don't doubt that Ukrainian forces probably also behave badly (esp the like of the volunteer units with their politically dubious motives), someone in cuffs being punched and kicked is still pretty low "A shocking video has emerged which appears to show a pro-Russian rebel commander force-feeding captured Ukrainian soldiers their own uniforms." [actually, the badges] link Always amazed that people film themselves doing things like this, as it is bound to get out (especially when they post it up themselves!). Clearly the intention is for the domestic market to think what a great job they are doing, but they seem ignorant of the repercussions outside thier own bubble. Meanwhile ongoing sightings of Russian-army-only equipment appearances over the last 7 months (T-72B3, T-72B1, BPM-97, GAZ-3937, BTR-82A…) continue to raise awkward questions.
This allegedly shows a Grad launcher on a different platform, not used by Ukraine. "The systems appears in Donetsk in fresh winter camouflage showing it was prepared for winter war and surely sent in under the current weather conditions. Also the "rebel" camera man pulls down his camera as soon as it leaves the line of 4 older BM-21, mounted on Ural-375D (a system, delivered in its hundreds by the Russian army to its proxies and forces in Donbas). He obviously has the orders to not film such system in that area and that time. However, he lifts it up 4 seconds too early clearing the sight of this 100% Russian army weapon system." |
GNREP8 | 28 Jan 2015 8:13 a.m. PST |
Interesting thing about that DM piece is the majority of comments seem to see poor old Putin and Russia as hard done to in all this by the enemy of world peace -ie the USA/UK/EU/NATO. If it but had a 'sheeple wake up' comment it would be tick all the boxes of agitprop types actually serving the interests of a state (Russia) where they'd last 5 minutes. I can appreciate that some posters are going to be expat Russians and like Argentinians ref the Falklands, they have blinkers on these kind of issues and I can understand that. However I also have a feeling that (even on a DM website) there are the kind of people who (to paraphrase Rob Brydon Welsh comic actor) 'if the 3rd Reich were playing England would support the 3rd Reich' (despite the Holocauast – or maybe because of, as a worryingly large number of people overall who support the 'Russian' pov seem to have an obsession about rich bankers etc and shadowy cabals – if they could find evidence of Israeli soldiers fighting on the Ukrainian side it would be a full house for them). They are also all evidently convinced that no-one in Kyiv speaks Russian without fear of Svoboda boot boys and that Kharkiv, Odesa etc are only still parts of Ukraine due to presumably the jackbooted power of the state. Strangely too I notice on both the DM and Guardian site comments that any attacks on DNR areas that kill civilians are by the Ukrainians – any attacks on Ukrainian territory that kill civilians – like Mariupol – are Ukrainian false flag ops. Since to the non Russian UK posters who see it all as the EU/NATO/US/UKs fault, the West is the font of all evil, maybe we should be getting concerned about those non Muslims in our midst who presumably (following the logic of their views) sympathise with ISIS attacks on us |
GeoffQRF | 28 Jan 2015 9:11 a.m. PST |
They are also all evidently convinced that no-one in Kyiv speaks Russian without fear of Svoboda boot boys and that Kharkiv, Odesa etc are only still parts of Ukraine due to presumably the jackbooted power of the state. This is a worrying effect of the propaganda machine, when in fact nothing could be further from the truth. Not only Kyiv, but I was over in Rivne (in the west, near Lviv) and Russian was freely and openly spoken on the streets. Far from fearing jackboots in Kharkiv, our friends there instead fear the arrival of Russian troops. |
GeoffQRF | 29 Jan 2015 5:47 a.m. PST |
…as far as I know no other Russian military personnel have been captured by the govt forces While allegedly not actually there at the direct instruction of their government, the presence of Russian military personnel on 'vacation' is not denied, either by Russia or the soldiers themselves… link "Russia has consistently denied its forces are involved, but the BBC has spoken to Russian fighters in Ukraine who talk openly about taking on the Ukrainian army." This is where Russian claims of non-interference fall down. Had Russia secured the border and prevented Russian service personnel from being allowed to engage in conflict on a foreign territory while on vacation then we would be seeing a much more stable situation already. Perhaps more worringly is the wording he is using towards the end – they seem to honestly believe that they should retake land lost at the end of the Cold War to form a new Russian Empire… "… this is a holy war for the Russian people, fighting for our future, for our ideals, for our children, and our great country that 25 years ago was divided up into pieces…" |