Tango01 | 21 Jan 2015 9:39 p.m. PST |
… fighter jets and helicopters stolen from museums in Ukraine. "A self-proclaimed state in Eastern Ukraine claims to be renovating and restoring old fighter jets and military helicopters captured and found across the region. According to Russian Spring, the news website of the Lugansk People's Republic (LNR) armed forces, the LNR's aircraft "arsenal" includes a 1970s-designed Sukhoi Su-25 fighter jet (under renovation) and assorted helicopters taken from various museums. They also claim to have a few L-29 Delfin training jets, designed in the 1960s but still in use in a handful of nations, and sometimes retrofitted for use as bombers. On Jan. 15, LNR militia leaders claimed the aircraft will be used to protect the people of the self-proclaimed republic. The report also mentioned that the militia already has pilots with an extensive experience, who served in the Soviet air force…" Full article here link Quite interesting idea for wargaming! You can used your old models for wagame Ultramodern! Amicalement Armand |
Deadone | 21 Jan 2015 9:52 p.m. PST |
Let me guess, the Lughansk People's Republic will be "launching" L-29s yet somehow when those jets arrive on target, they'll look like Su-27s and MiG-29s with taped over markings? |
MaahisKuningas90 | 21 Jan 2015 10:22 p.m. PST |
..or then ukrainian government claims that russians are supplying rebels with high-end technological war material, only used by russian itself, like L-29 dolphins and Su-25s? :P |
GeoffQRF | 22 Jan 2015 3:54 a.m. PST |
Somehow I think getting museum aircraft serviceable is a significant stage more involved than getting a tank up and running… If the engine stalls or a bitfalls off the tank you can stop or keep going… somewhat more problematic when a jet engine flames out or the stabliser falls off due to fatigue… not sure I'd want to fly it. |
Lion in the Stars | 22 Jan 2015 11:09 a.m. PST |
Let me guess, the Lughansk People's Republic will be "launching" L-29s yet somehow when those jets arrive on target, they'll look like Su-27s and MiG-29s with taped over markings? If I were one of Czar Vlad's lackeys in charge of maskirovka, I'd at least limit the air support to Su25s and maybe some MiG29s. Or whatever the Ukraine has in service. At least make the attempt to obfuscate the identity of the attacking air support. The scary thing about a nation with conscription is that pretty much the entire population has some clue how to make the military hardware work… |
Deadone | 22 Jan 2015 3:04 p.m. PST |
Ukraine currently operates all fighters as Russia bar Su-30//-34/-35 (Flanker derivatives from below look much like a basic Su-27 to untrained eyes) and MiG-31. MiG-31 isn't really needed in Ukraine though it would probably assist as a mini-AWACS if the Ukrainian AF tangles with the Russian AF. Su-30s can perform same role. Russia's pilots and equipment are far superior than Ukraine's despite same basic platforms (Su-24/-25/-27/MiG-29). Many of Russia's aircraft have been upgraded or are new build whereas Ukraine's are mainly flying with 1980s equipment. Russia's rebuilt it's pilot training some regiments are now as high as 150 hours per pilot per annum which is more than a number of NATO countries and roughly average for French pilots. Ukraine's pilots were flying extremely low hours due to lack of fuel and airworthy aircraft. They've ramped up the overhaul of older jets but training pilots takes years. |
Aristonicus | 03 Feb 2015 4:48 a.m. PST |
Aviation LC column broke the rear of the Ukrainian army link The Su-25 Air Force Lugansk People's Republic conducted a successful raid on the front. Earlier it was reported that in the People's Republic of Lugansk the militia displayed its own combat aircraft, of which one was an assault aircraft Su-25 (it was captured July 11). It has made a sortie, which struck a blow to the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the area under Alexandrovka Lugansk. According to the militia yesterday the Su-25 of the VVS of the LNR successfully conducted the attack on the rear of the column of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which were held in reserve on the Artiomovsk Debaltseve road. As a result, flying attack aircraft destroyed four armored vehicles and two trucks with the infantry.
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Deadone | 03 Feb 2015 3:05 p.m. PST |
Aristonicus, good stuff. I was wondering whether they would have any luck getting the jets operational. I wonder how many Su-25s they had captured. And I wonder if any surplus Russian airframes will be delivered. |
Ascent | 03 Feb 2015 11:49 p.m. PST |
I suspect surplus Russian parts have been supplied to get it airborne. |
EMPERORS LIBRARY | 04 Feb 2015 7:12 a.m. PST |
But where are the weapons and ammunition coming from? Museums!? |
GeoffQRF | 04 Feb 2015 7:47 a.m. PST |
Suspicion online appears to be that this aircraft is not actually flying, but used as a PR stunt to disguise attack runs by Russian SU-25s. This video shows both the SU-25 and L-29: YouTube link The L-29 is shown taxying, but no flight footage. You don't need it very airworthy to taxi… |
49mountain | 04 Feb 2015 10:08 a.m. PST |
I suspect that these are not operational. I think museum pieces would need new avionics to function and you don't put avionics back in a plane in a couple of weeks, unless you want the plane to crash on take off. |
Deadone | 04 Feb 2015 3:23 p.m. PST |
I suspect that these are not operational. I think museum pieces would need new avionics to function and you don't put avionics back in a plane in a couple of weeks, unless you want the plane to crash on take off.
They don't need new avionics save radios. And especially not with such simple aircraft as Su-25s or L-29s which don't have virtually any modern avionics. The Canadians were recently pulling out avionics from a C-130 in a muesum to keep existing aircraft flying. |
Deadone | 04 Feb 2015 3:27 p.m. PST |
Suspicion online appears to be that this aircraft is not actually flying, but used as a PR stunt to disguise attack runs by Russian SU-25s.This video shows both the SU-25 and L-29: YouTube link The L-29 is shown taxying, but no flight footage. You don't need it very airworthy to taxi…
Even if airworthy the L-29 is nothing to be worried about – maximum weapons load of 440lb (basically practice bombs) and that'll shut down its combat radius. Su-25s are far more dangerous. I agree this might be cover for RuAF Su-25s. I wouldn't be surprised if Luhansk also "restores" some late model Su-27s, Su-30s and Su-34s from a museum too*. :P *Su-30 and Su-34 are latest additions to RuAF.
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Aristonicus | 05 Feb 2015 5:17 a.m. PST |
Some older photos (pre-September 2014) The Su-25 captured after a forced landing at Lugansk airport on July 11. Somehow it survived the battles there in August?
If it is the same aircraft its' paintwork got a bit of a touch up.
Alternatively, it is this one re-painted (except for the upper wing surfaces – still quite worn in the above photo)
A second aircraft (Su-25?) with Novorossiya markings in the background behind the vehicle, nose of the first Su-25 in the foreground. Perhaps the museum piece before re-paint.
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Jemima Fawr | 05 Feb 2015 6:35 a.m. PST |
That first aircraft is an Su-24 'Fencer' and not an Su-25 'Frogfoot'. Very different aircraft the Su-24 is a low-level interdictor/strike aircraft, very much like the Tornado or F-111 in appearance and role. Note the twin engine nozzles right at the rear the Su-25 has the engines mounted in nacelles on the sides of the fuselage. Note the swept tailfin-shape compared to the very upright tail of the Su-25. Note also the pod at the base of the tailfin, which the Su-25 doesn't have. It's not that obvious, but you can just about make out that the first aircraft has the variable-geometry wings of the Su-24. |
Jemima Fawr | 05 Feb 2015 6:38 a.m. PST |
Here you go a Ukrainian Su-24: Note the podule on the spine and at the base of the tail: link |
Deadone | 05 Feb 2015 4:19 p.m. PST |
They have Su-24s? I didn't know the rebels had captured any (though at least 1 and possibly more have crashed and one was badly damaged). As Jemima pointed out Su-25 and Su-24 are world's apart.
Su-24
Su-25
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Aristonicus | 06 Feb 2015 4:09 a.m. PST |
Seems I have suffered from a case of seeing what I expected to see rather than seeing what was actually there…. |