LazyStudent3 | 21 Jan 2015 6:26 a.m. PST |
Hello all, I have been using both Foundry as well as Vallejo red paints for a while now. However I have a problem. I undercoat in black as standard and always it seems that the pigment is very poor and the paints do not cover properly. This is especially noticeable if the figure's clothes have folds in. Does anyone have any tips? I get a similar issue from yellow, however I know this is probably due to the undercoat and not the paint. Cheers, LS |
smolders | 21 Jan 2015 7:10 a.m. PST |
I use Tremclad Flat black from a spray can for a black undercoat and use Citadel reds over that…these go over the black very well and don't usually need more than 1 or 2 applications…I've yet to find a yellow that is easy to work, but what I have done is start with a light brown over the black undercoat then the yellow tends to work a lot better. Give that a try, best of luck! |
smolders | 21 Jan 2015 7:13 a.m. PST |
I should have said first off make sure you are stirring the paint sufficiently prior to painting it on. |
Ashurman | 21 Jan 2015 7:13 a.m. PST |
I usually extensively dry brush white or light gray over a black undercoat, using fairly thin paint, an old brush, and a fair bit of pushing to get into deeper areas. I will then paint the whites/reds/yellows over that and get an at least partially shaded look (depending on how well I did the dry brushing). That generally applies to any paint sufficiently thinned or low in pigment. The extra step often seems painful, but I usually end up liking the results! The Ashurman |
MajorB | 21 Jan 2015 7:17 a.m. PST |
I undercoat in black as standard and always it seems that the pigment is very poor and the paints do not cover properly. I get a similar issue from yellow, however I know this is probably due to the undercoat and not the paint. Don't undercoat in black … Seriously though I find that some colours, yellow in particular, but also red to a lesser extent are somewhat transluscent, so to get them to show up well, I first paint the required area white and then paint the yellow or red over that. The problem is actually the transluscency of the paint – nothing to do with it being a "poor" pigment or due to the undercoat. |
GarrisonMiniatures | 21 Jan 2015 8:16 a.m. PST |
Red and yellow, always use a white undercoat for those areas., |
RavenscraftCybernetics | 21 Jan 2015 8:54 a.m. PST |
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jeffreyw3 | 21 Jan 2015 9:44 a.m. PST |
If I wanted to use single coats, or base coat/one highlight on my figures, I would use a gray undercoat, otherwise, trying to cover with whites, yellows and reds would drive me crazy, and for no purpose. Anything that goes over a black undercoat has a base color (Red: Vallejo Black Red, e.g.) that completely covers the area first, and then the primary color gets build up from there. |
LazyStudent3 | 21 Jan 2015 10:18 a.m. PST |
Thanks for the tips. MajorB I hadn't realised it was the translucency of the paint. In my head the two things are the same. I prefer to undercoat in black because I find it highlights easier, but I might try the technique of painting certain areas white before hand! |
Timmo uk | 21 Jan 2015 10:32 a.m. PST |
All paint is translucent to a degree. Use a white undercoat then paint in any shadow areas you want – this might mean that you paint all the rest the figure black leaving the areas to be painted red or yellow with the best base layer they can have – ie. white. I understand why black as an undercoat is so popular but it's not always the easiest way to paint and in some situations it creates extra work. I painted 400 figures with it before going back to white. |
ernieR | 21 Jan 2015 10:44 a.m. PST |
when painting figures with a lot of red i use grey or white primer . when less that 25% or so of the fig is going to be red i use Vallejo MC 70.982 Cavalry Brown as a base coat . it's a rich reddish-brown (or brownish-red ?) that covers well . i end up with quite a dark red but i prefer that to brighter versions. |
Mark RedLinePS | 21 Jan 2015 11:19 a.m. PST |
I use Games Workshop ( Citadel ) Foundation Paints. They don't sell them any more but now sell Base Paints which I presume is the same stuff. |
Schogun | 21 Jan 2015 12:15 p.m. PST |
Folks say Cel Vinyl reds and yellow cover black well. |
Todosi | 21 Jan 2015 1:44 p.m. PST |
If you are undercoating in black ( I do as well), then put a base of brown under the area you want Red or Yellow. That will help immensely with the inherent translucency of those colors. |
Cardinal Hawkwood | 21 Jan 2015 3:12 p.m. PST |
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evilgong | 21 Jan 2015 3:13 p.m. PST |
When I undercoat in black, as I do, I find reds and yellows benefit from painting the required area in brown first. Regards David F Brown |
MajorB | 22 Jan 2015 4:09 a.m. PST |
I use Games Workshop ( Citadel ) Foundation Paints. They don't sell them any more but now sell Base Paints which I presume is the same stuff. No, they're not. If you want the ORIGINAL Citadel paints then you can still get them. They are now marketed as Coat d'Arms. |
alamann1 | 22 Jan 2015 12:10 p.m. PST |
I paint over a brown undercoat on my TYW figs and the first coat of red is subdued as a result. I then use a wash which dulls the colours a bit further, and then use the base colours, sometimes lightened, to highlight. I found the red was still dull. Then I tried giving the red areas a quick and not very neat highlight in yellow. Once that is dry, go over it with a slightly thinned coat of red, and it comes up ok. Photo here; link |
HANS GRUBER | 22 Jan 2015 7:34 p.m. PST |
Undercoat the (red) area to be painted in Vallejo black red. |
eptingmike | 26 Jan 2015 6:43 a.m. PST |
@MajorB, The GW Foundation paints came out long after Coat d'Arms and GW/Citadel parted ways. Not to say CdA doesn't have a similar product but I don't think they had a hand in the particular GW product in question. |
bobm1959 | 09 Mar 2015 2:52 p.m. PST |
Vallejo have brought out a range of extra opaque colours which give a solid basecolour under the reds and yellows in my paintbox. |
LazyStudent3 | 17 Mar 2015 8:00 a.m. PST |
@bobm1959 What's that range called? I can't see anything on their website. Although that is probably me just being blind. |
durecell | 06 May 2015 4:29 p.m. PST |
They're called Game Color Extra Opaque. Part of the Game Color range with Heavy at the start of their names. |
TKindred | 22 May 2015 6:52 p.m. PST |
I have switched, for the most part, to a matte white primer. I buy the $1 USD/can automotive spray paint at WalMart and it works like a champ. I also use a lot of inks over the white, in full strength, and they tend to stain it nicely, leaving highlights on the raised areas which saves me a LOT of work. The only other primers I use are Army Painter color primers. I prime my Republican Romans with their Chainmail silver, then paint from the inside out. Easy to do and speeds up the painting without sacrificing detail and shading. For my barbarians/Celts/Gauls/Britons/etc, I prime with their Barbarian Flesh. Again, since they have lots of bare fleshy bits, it speeds up the painting and over-painting the flesh base is very easy. I can't see any situation where I would ever return to a black undercoat/primer again. |