Virtualscratchbuilder | 20 Jan 2015 5:37 p.m. PST |
There is some discussion on the Sentinel Games Kiskstarter comments board that SG may have gone under (or away) with our cash, with out any delivery. The product is way overdue, promises have not been met, no update since early December, and no one has been able to raise them on any hailing frequency since that time. Apparently Kickstarter itself has not been forthcoming with info either. Anyone here know anything better? |
Redroom | 20 Jan 2015 5:46 p.m. PST |
I am one of the backers too and have reported them, but Kickstarter does not seem to do anything along policing. Curious if anyone knows anything. |
wminsing | 20 Jan 2015 7:03 p.m. PST |
Well, 6 weeks between updates doesn't seem outrageous, but the lack of any outside contact is worrisome. Though just eyeballing the project, that's a lot of product for not all that much money raised…. Seems like a possible risk factor. -Will |
Extra Crispy | 20 Jan 2015 8:33 p.m. PST |
AFAIK Kickstarter never casts themselves as "enforcers" – they are the market place, not the regulators. I'm sure they have an interest in making sure most KS go off, but with a business model like that they know a few will end up being vapor ware…I hope it works out for you…. |
Weasel | 20 Jan 2015 9:16 p.m. PST |
Kickstarter collects their money regardless of whether the project finishes or not. |
Zombiebobb13 | 20 Jan 2015 10:45 p.m. PST |
Just look at what went down with and is still going on with Defience Games and KS, KS has become a buyer beware deal. |
John Treadaway | 20 Jan 2015 11:52 p.m. PST |
Don't do kickstarters for just those reasons. John t |
Doms Decals | 21 Jan 2015 3:20 a.m. PST |
KS was always a buyer beware deal to be honest – it's just taken a while to sink in…. |
TheOtherOneFromTableScape | 21 Jan 2015 3:47 a.m. PST |
I've backed one kickstarter. It was funded and I got the stuff more or less when they said I would. Absolutely happy. I had to fund my rewards with a credit card, which was duly billed when the kickstarter period ended and the project had reached it's funding level. In UK we have the Consumer Credit Act which makes credit card companied jointly liable for purchases of over £100.00 GBP and up to £30,000.00 GBP (I think). In a case like this, where the goods haven't been delivered according to the contract (which, as I understand it, in UK, a kickstarter is a contract) could you make a claim against the credit card issuer under the Consumer Credit Act? Any solicitors or barristers car to comment? |
The Gray Ghost | 21 Jan 2015 5:41 a.m. PST |
I have always been leery of Kickstarters |
tnjrp | 21 Jan 2015 6:37 a.m. PST |
Don't think it was a rip-off like some other KS projects have pretty obviously been. Too much effort in the wrong places (photoshopping miniature piles etc.) for that. Which doesn't mean it hasn't failed for other reasons, which include but are not limited to severe (mental?) health issues the personnel of a basically one-man operation and the company (such as it ever was) simply going insolvent. Somebody who knows a Spanish speaker or preferably someone who actually is Spanish might be able to dig out relevant information about that last but I strongly doubt that information is readily available in English. |
Mithmee | 21 Jan 2015 7:38 a.m. PST |
Which is why you should only get in on Kickstarters of proven companies. |
wminsing | 21 Jan 2015 7:41 a.m. PST |
Reading through the updates and such I agree it seems like this one has gone belly-up. Not a scam (too much work gone into it for that), probably just a case of too small, too ambitious and the money has run out…. -Will |
Virtualscratchbuilder | 21 Jan 2015 8:17 a.m. PST |
In a case like this, where the goods haven't been delivered according to the contract (which, as I understand it, in UK, a kickstarter is a contract) could you make a claim against the credit card issuer under the Consumer Credit Act? My understanding (most likely flawed) is in the US you have 60 days to file for non-delivery. That means Kickstarters are inherently risky when you get charged in November for something that is estimated due the following June, and you are SOL when the stuff still has not shown up 15 months after being charged. To me a scam and a rip-off are two different things. To me a rip-off is when you promise me something and then take my money and vanish, regardless of your good intentions. So far, my tally on KS is: 1 delivered faithfully and happy with goods (Counterblast) 2 delivered waaaaaay late – so late I lost interest (Relic Knights and ACMF) <-- just got 2nd half of my stuff yesterday 1 probable belly-up (Total Extinction) I think this is where I get off the bus. |
Earl of the North | 21 Jan 2015 8:26 a.m. PST |
Its a shame, I was interested in some of their stuff but not enough to pay for a kickstarter. |
Rhysius Cambrensis | 21 Jan 2015 12:44 p.m. PST |
Simple – stay away from KS – you have no come back. If someone hasn't got the money to get a small business going then… They haven't got the money… |
Zematus | 21 Jan 2015 1:36 p.m. PST |
It's always been buyer beware and it's always been a bit of a gamble. Only back projects you trust, or feel safe risking the money on. It should also go without saying, only risk money you are comfortable losing. Over the years I've backed 32 projects. 23 of those have completed successfully and I received my goods. Most of them were late to some degree, more than one was a year late. In fact, if it involved product created overseas it was late. 9 are still in progress. Of those 9 in progress, 6 are late/overdue (from 1 to 6 months) and only 1 of those late projects is uncertain. Many projects suffer from "first time project planner inexperience", so a little patience is often required, and the biggest gotchas seem to be production delays and shipping costs. In summary, I've had a good experience, and enjoy helping get someone's pet project off the ground (also getting some good deals along the way) and in some cases ultimately seeing it show up in retail. |
ordinarybass | 21 Jan 2015 2:53 p.m. PST |
KS is a gamble, but not a very dangerous one. The internet is pretty useful for checking up on the business history of whoever happens to be running the KS. The blanket statement "avoid KS" makes no sense, especially when there are such good deals to be had. Simply approach KS with eyes wide open and don't let "the deal" blind you to the history of the KS creator. I've backed 8 funded kickstarters, a mix of established and lesser known. 6 have fulfilled so far. The fastest and the slowest delivery were both from lesser known folks (Mega Minis Salvage Crew and Ghosts of Heife respectively) and I've got two that I'm waiting for from large companies (Reaper and RAFM) that I have no doubt will fulfill at or close-to their delivery dates. |
Zen Ghost | 22 Jan 2015 5:00 a.m. PST |
KS is an investment. With all investments, you need to do your research. I have invested in several KS projects with success. However, as previously mentioned, the delivery timelines were ambitious, but I did receive the products. I have on one KS that has yet to deliver, 15 months late and counting, but company has continued their updates. Invest only what you can afford to lose. |
doug redshirt | 23 Jan 2015 9:36 a.m. PST |
I have had good luck on kickstarters. The only one I got burned on was All Quiet on the Martian Front. Still waiting on product that everyone else can buy now. |
tnjrp | 02 Feb 2015 6:30 a.m. PST |
It appears that not only the project runner of TE:B4K is quite absent but also "Sentinel Games" is not actually registered as a proper company in Spain. While this isn't necessarily indication of foul play since it seems valid to use a commercial name there instead, it means there isn't any way to determine if the company has gone belly up since it hasn't ever existed as such. Some folks have complained about the project to KS but KS likely lacks both the means and the inclination to pull a project runner who is as persistently incommunicado as this one currently is out of a hat. I'm inclined to consign any pledge money gone to this one to eternity at this stage. Still don't think this failure to launch was the nefarious purpose of SG all along, but the net result is much the same. |
tnjrp | 02 Feb 2015 11:07 p.m. PST |
And hot on the heels of that, an update: link Looks like somebody finally got through to SG. Shall have to see if anything actually develops of course. |
tnjrp | 02 Apr 2015 3:16 a.m. PST |
The lastest on this is that the shipping has been delayed because of defective pieces discovered during packing that had to be replaced. First parcels ought to go in the mail on Monday (it apparently not being a big holiday in Spain) so by the end of the month we should know for sure if B4K is a rip-off or not. |
tnjrp | 29 Apr 2015 12:02 a.m. PST |
There's a word out that at least one parcel has arrived with most of the items on board (aside of a couple of obvious packing errors, apparently). Some pix here: link link More parcels should be on their way so we might expect to see reviews shortly. For now see comments on the KS comment page: link |
Dentatus | 29 Apr 2015 7:19 a.m. PST |
Wow. I figured this was a bust. Nice to be wrong. |