"Prussian grenadiers in the Waterloo campaign" Topic

IIRC Prussian infantry regiments had grenadiers companies that were usually converged to form grenadier battalions.

Did they do this in 1815? What I have read has been silent on the deeds of grenadiers which makes me wonder.

Also, did Reserve regiments have grenadier companies? How about Landwehr? I think the answer to the latter is No but as they had apparently been instructed to form fusilier and musketeer battalions I'm not sure.

I thought they had been formed into permanent regiments by 1815, none of which were with Blucher's Army: link

Right, so they had been permanently detached? Thanks, I didn't know that.

They're all back in Prussia. The following OB is from Nafziger. As Whirlwind said above, they had been formed into the Kaiser Alexander and Kaiser Franz Grenadier Regiments.

You are correct, neither reserve nor Landwehr had grenadier companies.

Guard and Grenadier Corps: Generallieutenant Duke Carl of
Mecklenburg-Strelitz

Brigade: Oberst von Albensleben
lst Regiment Garde zu Fuss (3)
2nd Regiment Garde zu Fuss (3)
Garde Jager Battalion

Brigade: Oberst von Knobelsdorf
Regiment Garde du Corps
Guard Hussar Regiment

Brigade: Oberst von Natzmer
Kaiser Alexander Grenadier Regiment (3)
Kaiser Franz Grenadier Regiment (3)
Garde-Schuetzen-Bataillon

Brigade: Oberst Laroche von Starkenfels
Guard Dragoon Regiment
Guard Uhlan Regiment

Artillery: Major von Willman
l2pdr Guard Foot Battery #l
6pdr Guard Foot Battery #l
6pdr Guard Horse Battery #l
6pdr Guard Horse Battery #2
Park Column #37
Main Hospital #7
Flying Hospital #l9 & #20

There are 2 more corps back there with them as well, a cavalry reserve, and a corps Kur Prussian troops (raised in areas newly acquired by Prussia, I think) and a division or so of Mecklenburgers. Oddly enough, this corps has grenadier battalions.

Something to watch the Austrians, just in case and perhaps to over-awe any domestic troublemakers.

Before Napoleon returned Britain had signed a secret alliance with Austria and Bourbon France against Prussia and possible Russia. Napoleon had revealed this agreement when the fleeing Bourbons left it behind. There is a reason Gneisenau distrusted the British.

Well said vtsao, that is an often under-represented fact in many histories.. I forgot where, Haythornethwaite possibly (?), but I recall reading something along the lines of Gneisenau's irrational anti-anglo paranoia…

The only Grenadiers in Blucher's Army in 1815 was the Berg Grenadier Bn. that formed part of the 29th Regt.

Why didn't the Prussian 12th thru 31st Regts form Grenadier Cos. ?? Was this done post-Waterloo ??

I believe that post 1815 the Regiments 1-12 were designated Grenadiers, and no new grenadiers were created until the 3rd and 4th Guard Grenadiers after the 1860 reforms.

Mollinary

@ Inkbiz

From the somewhat discredited Hamilton-Williams.
(I'm going out on a limb & suggesting though he pulled a few "fast ones" his work is still of some value).

The Bergisches Grenadier-Bataillon lost its name and was just called 1. Bataillon shortly after it was incorporated in the Prussian 29. Infanterie-Regiment on 7 May 1815.

On the Prussian grenadiers from 1808 see:

link

I haven't come accross comments of the period, why there were no grenadiers formed in the reserve regiments. Lack of tall men I presume, the tallest recruits already having been absorbed by the existing line regiments.

Whereas in the French army being transferd to the grenadiers (or voltigeurs) was a kind of reward, Prussian grenadiers received the same pay as a musketeer or fusileer of the line infantry. They were just taller.

The Prussian infantry regiments nos 1 to 12 were named Grenadier-Regimenter in the second half of the 19th century.

Thanks for the info Mollinary & Oliver.

Interesting that the tradition of forming Grenadier Cos. was going out of style. Infantry was becoming more generic I suppose.

This is sad reading. I was just putting together the Prussians for the last installment of our Waterloo campaign as they arrive at Waterloo. Not one Grenadier mentioned in any Orders of Battle. What a shame. I have so many nice battalions with those great black plumes. No Guards either. So much for being historical :(

"They were just taller."

Under Frederick the Great, I believe the grenadiers were explicitly no longer chosen for height, but from the most reliable and fittest soldiers (since they'd be expected to keep up with a lot of forced marches). This seems like a very sensible policy, so when and why did it change?

The army under Blucher in 1815 is almost entirely lacking in the good stuff. Half the infantry is Landwehr, no guards no grenadiers, no cuirassiers (not that much cavalry of any kind, actually). I guess that's one reason Napoleon trounced the Prussians so thoroughly at Ligny even though the numbers were about equal.

The Landwehr was pretty experienced in 1815, having been with the colours for 2 years. This is pretty good for a continental power at the end of the Napoleonic Wars.

The lack of cuirassiers would be telling; OTOH, I don't think either the French or the Prussians used massed heavies at either Ligny or Wavre.

So Bluecher's army isn't as disadvantaged as you might think.

If would be interesting to insert specific campaign rules wherein the French are super-enthusiastic to the point of being uncontrollable, but can suffer from a sudden and catastrophic morale failure; wherein Prussians are enthusiastic; and many British regts are "green". Belgians might not want to be there much at all.