"Protracted close combat in the ECW" Topic

I played out a small ECW battle this morning link using Neil Thomas' rules from his "Wargaming: An Introduction" set. There were a few very protracted close combats in the game, two between cavalry units and two between infantry units, the latter in an attack over a stream into a village. Was protracted close combat a feature of the ECW? I'd somehow got the impression that when close combat actually happened it was pretty decisive, but I really don't know too much about the details of the period. Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.

It was this book that peaked my interest in gaming the "Shot & Pike" era. I have since played FOGR, Blackpowder and Carnage & Glory as well. There is a free set of rules, "Winged Fury" on the Ambler Games yahoo site and I think a link can be found on the Free War Games Rules wiki site. A set I've been wanting to try is "Warr Without an Enemy". "Father Tilly" used to be free and you might be able to still find that version.

As far as protracted close combat goes it is my understanding that it was historically accurate. I also understand that it was possible for two mounted units to ride right through each other as well.

Haven't played Neil's ECW rules but have played the ancients and 19th Century (and read all of the books). The rules are very, very simple (with nuance) so some things are abstracted (as explained in his chapters about game design).

That being said, from what I have read close range firefights could slog on for a while but the actual push of pike wouldn't last as long (there are others far more qualified that can chime in).

The close combat in the rules may not necessarily reflect a constant push of pike for turn after turn but close range volleys, small advances and retreats, etc. In some of his rules from the One Hour Wargames book, cavalry automatically retreat 6 inches facing the enemy after the charge and melee. Maybe you could add a rule like that to your gaming?

At Edgehill there are accounts of pike blocks clashing and then both sides retiring a few yards for a breather then going back in again. This could happen more than once in the same clash. At Whalley in April 1643 the shock of surprise contact and being fired on was enough to make inexperienced troops break before coming to grips.

Cavalry melee could range from swirling fights with both sides inter penetrating the others formations to opening ranks and passing right through each other shooting and slashing as they went. Early in the war some parliament units tried to stop the enemy from coming to close quarters by shooting from horse back but it appears to have generally been an unsuccessful tactic. By mid war both sides preferred to get in close and shoot as part of the mounted melee.

It seems from other accounts that close combat results varied dramatically. The real killer was cavalry in the pursuit phase of the battle. I wouldn't expect that melee combat was indecisive but the effectiveness of close combat was as much from the morale effect on troops determination to continue as from casualties. If you are expecting to see massive casualties from melee don't (at least not all of the time). Expect musketry to do the damage and close combat to break the will of units to stand and fight.

I would assume that in any ruleset close combat includes quite a bit of shooting very short range rather actual push of pike, which happened but rarely.

If you look at it that way then there is shooting, then the two units close to a much closer range, then one side charges and the other side breaks in most cases, while in some case the two sides close and there may be some push of pike.

Asking simulation of combat at a detail level from One Hour Wargames is asking a lot. Perhaps something that required 4+ hours to resolve the game might do better. And might not.

One opinion on pike fighting is that much of it was probably "fencing," jabbing and parrying between fairly stationary pike block until one side or the other got the worst of it and began to give way. Meanwhile the shot would have come to blows with clubbed muskets and swords. If neither side ran before contact, and no other units intervened, such encounters mighty last for a while. Such fights would probably include "retiring for a breather then going back in again," as Elenderil has pointed out.

Close combat encounters lasting for both sides to come to clubbing range is somewhat uncommon. Fatigue seems to have played an inordinate level of affect in ECW mentions, but this is based only on my research.

Asking simulation of combat at a detail level from One Hour Wargames is asking a lot. Perhaps something that required 4+ hours to resolve the game might do better. And might not.

I used the rules in his Wargaming: An Introduction rather than the ones in One-Hour Wargames. I have no reservations about the rules in general (for what they are), I was just a little surprised by these particular results. Very decisive combat is quite rare in all Neil Thomas' rules as far as I can tell, they all emphasize a certain amount of attrition.