ironicon | 15 Jan 2015 10:10 a.m. PST |
The CW post about drummers got me wondering what was the role of drummers in battle? |
Supercilius Maximus | 15 Jan 2015 10:26 a.m. PST |
Not sure about the Rebel forces, but in the British Army their role during the AWI seems to have been substantially altered from the common perception of relaying orders in battle. In 1778, an order from Horse Guards made it official that orders on the battlefield were to be distributed by word of mouth. However, this was merely accepting the reality that they had been relayed this way since the start of the war, and almost certainly in North America during the F&IW as well. In battle, drummers often assisted the wives in helping wounded men back to the surgeon, or distributing ammunition and refreshments. Gradually, drummers were either sent home to aid recruiting, or were armed and put into the ranks. The most senior drummer – the Drum Major – would be kept back to act as the orderly drummer for the battalion (two might be retained where the battalion was the most senior in the brigade and the D-M was sent to assist the brigade commander). |
ironicon | 15 Jan 2015 10:40 a.m. PST |
Thanks for the imformation. So that means I don't have to put drummers in my units, at least the Brits. They are a pain to paint. |
historygamer | 15 Jan 2015 11:09 a.m. PST |
In his "Instructions to Young Officers," Wolfe says the musicians should be dismissed to help with the wounded. Anyone who thinks a bunch of drums on a battlefield could be heard is dilluding themselves. That said, I still have a drummer with my command stands. |
Doctor X | 15 Jan 2015 11:11 a.m. PST |
They look great so they go on my command stands as well. |
Old Contemptibles | 15 Jan 2015 12:54 p.m. PST |
Don't forget bagpipes for our Scots! |
ironicon | 15 Jan 2015 1:24 p.m. PST |
When I get around to the 42nd, they will have pipes, correct or not. |
Dave Crowell | 15 Jan 2015 7:42 p.m. PST |
Drums might be useful for keeping cadence on the march, but once the guns start firing good luck hearing them. I field them because I like the way they look. The same reason a lot of figures hit the table. At typical war-games figure ratios I am not sure most of the "command" figures would even be visible. |
John the OFM | 15 Jan 2015 9:08 p.m. PST |
It would take a heart of stone to not put them on your command stands. |
Supercilius Maximus | 16 Jan 2015 4:33 a.m. PST |
@ HG, Thanks, I was trying to remember whether it was Wolfe, or a later edition of Bland that had that in it. |
PVT641 | 16 Jan 2015 6:44 a.m. PST |
From personal experience doing re-enacting where far less people and artillery are firing. It is the drum that can be heard while the verbal orders not so much. |
historygamer | 16 Jan 2015 9:26 a.m. PST |
But multiply that out by a hunderd or so – drums in each company? Which company drummer is beating that order? Is that my battalion or the one next to me? The firing sequences of a battalion were to be determined prior to battle by the battalion commander. At best drums would initiate the firing or cease it. Firing was to continue until a cease fire order was given, so need to keep repeating the drum signal there. And do you really think the uneducated men of the time would learn all the drum signals and know the difference? I love drummers. I was one. I have them on my command stands. They did not play a huge rule in 18th century battles from a command and control stand point. |
Bill N | 16 Jan 2015 9:57 a.m. PST |
At typical war-games figure ratios I am not sure most of the "command" figures would even be visible. That was my initial assumption as well. When I read Continental reports which broke down regimental strengths though, I was surprised to see that the ratio of officers and NCOs to privates in late war regiments was sometimes as high as 1:6. I think those same numbers are in Nafziger's OOBs. |
Supercilius Maximus | 17 Jan 2015 2:44 p.m. PST |
Bill, One of the reasons that units on both sides retained their cohesion for so long in battle was precisely because of the low leader:led ratio – in most British units it was under 1:10 throughout the war, even with the 1775 Augmentation (which added a sergeant and 18 privates per company) and the large battalions that arrived in the final years of the war, which had four officer and five (sometimes 6) sergeants. When the Foot Guards arrived in 1776, their officers complained that the 90-man companies were too big for just 6 officers and NCOs to command in two ranks (especially if not in close order). |
spider1g | 27 Jan 2015 4:02 p.m. PST |
There's not a ton of flag bearers on the field either, so anything above a scale of more than 1 to 1 is an argument not to have them represented on a stand as well. Simply ridiculous! Its a game private snuffy is lost at anything above 1 to 1 if you want to play miniatures battles its just a matter of aesthetics, it's simply part of the appeal otherwise I might suggest finding a board game then you dont need drummers or flags, perhaps a counter. |
Supercilius Maximus | 28 Jan 2015 6:17 a.m. PST |
Actually, quite a few Continental units adopted Charles Lee's proposal of one regimental colour (facing hue) and four "grand division" colours (red, buff, white blue); plus all German regiments, bar converged grenadiers, seem to have had a colonel's and four regimental colours. |
Dave Crowell | 31 Jan 2015 6:42 a.m. PST |
I game AWI at about 1:20 so if the historical command ratio was between 1:10 and 1:6 command figures are not utterly inappropriate. What is a bit silly is the standard Wargames practice of grouping them together on a command stand instead of deploying them historically. But as Spider1g says aesthetics matter, and I think it looks better that way. It's also a lot easier to spot three or figures grouped together than one among many when I need to know where the "command" is. I know I deploy more flags than were probably carried in battle, simply because they are great eye-candy. Same goes for drummers. Also if I am going to paint those PITA uniforms, I am d----d well going to put them on the table. |
Bill N | 01 Feb 2015 10:55 a.m. PST |
@SM-I had not thought about the command and control aspects of the high officer and NCO to troop ratios, and just figured it was a consequence of the decreasing size of American regiments. I also did not realize the same thing happened on the British side as well. @spider-I justify the disproportionate number of flags by saying an officer, musician or NCO figure represents ALL officers, musicians or NCOs regardless of type and regardless of where deployed in the unit. Having done that, it is simply a choice of which command figure I want to use and where I want to put them, since each figure in a unit has the same fighting capabilities. |
Supercilius Maximus | 02 Feb 2015 4:09 a.m. PST |
Bill – Officers might drop to two, or sometimes just one, but it was normal for the number of sergeants and corporals in a British company to be maintained, regardless of how many privates were left. Once a battalion dropped to around the 250 mark, it was usually "drafted" and the officers and sergeants sent home; nevertheless, it was common in the South for battalions to be 200-strong, which gave 25-man companies – 2 officers and 3 sergeants meant a 1:5 leadership ratio. Anything below 1:10 is usually good for control. |
historygamer | 02 Feb 2015 7:25 a.m. PST |
"What is a bit silly is the standard Wargames practice of grouping them together on a command stand instead of deploying them historically." Actually, I believe it would be common for any drummer(s) that remained with the battalion to be near the commanding officer, and not with a particular company. If drum signals were needed, the drummer was right there near the commanding officer. |
Supercilius Maximus | 02 Feb 2015 8:37 a.m. PST |
Quite right. He would act as an orderly to the battalion CO (or brigade CO if he was from the senior battalion in the brigade), as well as playing a drum – the latter usually only in camp or occasionally on the march. Personally, I like to put an officer at each end of the line and a couple of sergeants/subalterns behind the second rank along the length of the line – say one command figure per base of 6-8, or every two bases of 4 figures. A separate "command stand" (which need not be counted for firing/melee purposes) with a mounted CO and the colours, plus a drummer, makes a good "centre piece" and avoids the problem of the colours being "lopsided" if you have an even number of bases – as most tabletop units do. |