Field Marshal | 14 Jan 2015 8:26 p.m. PST |
I know some of you will say " i didnt i collected both":) but for those who chose one of them what swayed you either way? |
saltflats1929 | 14 Jan 2015 8:45 p.m. PST |
Well I "started" with FIW thinking it would be smaller scale/ need less figures and give the option to have raids & skirmishes with unconventional forces or linear battles once enough figures were painted. So much for the plan… |
John the OFM | 14 Jan 2015 9:07 p.m. PST |
I have done both. I started with AWI with regiment size units. I still game proudly with units that I painted in the 80s. Then I did FIW skirmish, and simultaneously did enough regiments to do St Foy and Plains of Abraham. But that got tired. Sold most of the FIW because I needed to pay the mortgage and … eat. Then I got heavily into AWI skirmish. I can still do my classic FIW skirmish game "Rescue Demi Moore". It would seem that AWI is my favorite, but you can't really beat having the French as the Bad Guys. |
Bashytubits | 14 Jan 2015 9:13 p.m. PST |
Ha, in my FIW games the bad guys are British. I have a designated Magua figure and he has killed Officers right and left. |
cavcrazy | 14 Jan 2015 9:50 p.m. PST |
AWI is my choice, I like all the variety and different looks of the uniforms. You can still game with Indians in the AWI. It has a lot more too choose from in terms of theaters, North, South, You can do better campaigns, naval battles. I'm thinking growing up in Massachusetts didn't hurt either, every year in elementary school was a field trip, Bunker hill, Old Ironsides, The Freedom trail, Lexington and Concord. |
grommet37 | 14 Jan 2015 11:19 p.m. PST |
Nostalgia, upbringing, place of birth, favorite books. May try AWI in future. |
War In 15MM | 14 Jan 2015 11:42 p.m. PST |
Spencer Tracy and Robert Young in Northwest Passage… the power of childhood memories. |
historygamer | 15 Jan 2015 4:37 a.m. PST |
There really weren't many major field battles in F&I, and the few that were are hard to duplicate on a wargame table. |
sillypoint | 15 Jan 2015 4:55 a.m. PST |
Last of the Mohicans – James Fenimore Cooper. The author's name was possibly unnecessary, but I had to write it out….;) |
FusilierDan | 15 Jan 2015 4:56 a.m. PST |
The variety of the AWI with lot's of big battles is what got me. I do have some FIW. I grew up in upstate NY so the local history is pretty well mixed. |
Florida Tory | 15 Jan 2015 5:09 a.m. PST |
American Revolution, originally because that was what one of my sons was interested in after he found two painted units I had squirreled away for about 15 years and never used. Later, because we discovered the British Grenadier rules, which gave us a nicely paced fell in comparison to other games. But now, it seems that with Muskets & Tomahawks we can do both with very little additional investment. Rick |
rhacelt | 15 Jan 2015 6:17 a.m. PST |
I started with FIW skirmish. I think it was all the great films of my youth that got me started. As of late I have started a British force for AWI. |
WarWizard | 15 Jan 2015 7:01 a.m. PST |
Although I am attracted to both conflicts I went with FIW. Last of Mohicans film was strong influence. Also liked having large Indian war parties as well as being able to use conventional armies. |
vtsaogames | 15 Jan 2015 7:10 a.m. PST |
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Pizzagrenadier | 15 Jan 2015 7:22 a.m. PST |
F&I because having grown up on the Revolution in school, with the F&I being taught as a footnote (if at all) it interested me more. Seeing the 90s version of Last of the Mohicans and reading about the F&I in college sealed the deal. I still have zero interest in gaming the Revolution. |
Herkybird | 15 Jan 2015 7:29 a.m. PST |
FIW, the French have always been our favourite enemy! |
jefritrout | 15 Jan 2015 7:30 a.m. PST |
I have three medium size Musket and Tomahawk skirmish forces for F&I (British Lights, French Canadians, and lots of Indians). A family member has a rather extensive AWI force but based on the forces in the South. |
Norman D Landings | 15 Jan 2015 7:33 a.m. PST |
Not really a matter of preference, per se…. The group I game with at our club had an ongoing F&I skirmish project, so I bought forces and joined in. If they'd been playing AWI, I'd have got onboard equally happily. |
PVT641 | 15 Jan 2015 7:38 a.m. PST |
AWI, Grew up going to Bicentennial events with my father in the 64th foot. |
Old Contemptibles | 15 Jan 2015 8:54 a.m. PST |
Something that has happen to a lot of people. A buddy and I were going to get into AWI and he backed out. But I had it on my list to do some day, so I kept going. So I picked AWI over FIW on a fluke. I don't know why it is one or the other. Most people do both. Better to ask why did you choose AWI over Napoleonics or SYW. Most gamers don't think, gee AWI or FIW, I can pick only one. Which one should it be? |
Pan Marek | 15 Jan 2015 10:00 a.m. PST |
AWI, as one can do more variety, while still having frontier skirmishes a la FIW. It likely helps that I live in NJ, "the crossroads of the American Revolution". Do a little research, and one learns that skirmishes happened all over, providing a wealth of scenarios. |
historygamer | 15 Jan 2015 10:09 a.m. PST |
F&I gamings has too strong a fantasy streak in it for my taste. |
Der Alte Fritz | 15 Jan 2015 10:30 a.m. PST |
I get a little bit tired of raids and ambushes scenarios that epitomize FIW games, so AWI would be my preference. I think that there is more variety of big and small battles in AWI, in addition to the raids and ambushes games. As you might guess, my primary interest is the SYW/WAS, then AWI and then FIW. |
Der Alte Fritz | 15 Jan 2015 10:32 a.m. PST |
A good ambush scenario might be set up as the same old same old Indians and French ambushing the British and Provincials. However, the French and Indians don't realize that they are actually the target of the ambush. The game judge then springs the ambush on the Indians. |
ITALWARS | 15 Jan 2015 10:33 a.m. PST |
i prefer FYW for those net reasons: - more skirmish possibilities if compared to AWI - Simpathy for the French/Canadians - More "Colonial" or best "exotic" flavour ..(wich is my favourite kind of game)..if compared to AWI that reminds more European set up conflicts of the century.. - childish love for possibility to use canoes and indians as in the comics i read when i was a child (Blek) |
Supercilius Maximus | 15 Jan 2015 10:38 a.m. PST |
Gaming-wise, I'm with DAF – there are only two "battles" in the F&IW (Quebec and Ste Foy) and once you've done them, that's it. If you want something more than constant skirmishes and ambushes, AWI is the obvious choice out of the two; and if you like the "kleine krieg" as well, then the AWI actually has a lot more choice in terms of units, uniforms, and terrain, than the F&IW. From an historical perspective, I attended the 1975 and 1976 Bicentennial exhibitions in London (British Museum and National Maritime Museum, respectively) when I was still at school and before I had really taken up wargaming with real opponents as a hobby. I still have both catalogues showing many of the maps, portraits, battle paintings and documents that were on show. At about the same time, Airfix also released their "Washington's Army" and "British Grenadiers" OO/HO figure sets, and soon after that, Almark Publishing (just around the corner from my parents' house) published their modelling magazine which included a series of articles on converting other Airfix sets to portray all the forces of the AWI (including the French). Since I came to wargaming via history, rather than the other way around, there was only ever going to be one choice (especially after seeing clips from the "Great Catherine" movie with the diorama/battle of Bunker Hill – although I did find the two characters using miniature cannon to shoot the figures a little distressing). |
FreemanL | 15 Jan 2015 10:53 a.m. PST |
I have always enjoyed the Revolutionary War due to the personalities on all sides plus the size of the fights means that you get to know all of the participants. You get to know the people and that sells it. I started gaming the AWI in 15mm but sold them all off in the 90s and moved up to 25-28mm. Our group did the French and Indian War as well in 28mm and we used the Canadian Wargames Group Habitants and Highlanders FIW campaign game to refight the war. That was an absolute blast and I recommend that anyone wanting to try the war definitely do it in a campaign format. We had several great games including the 1st and 2nd Battles for Albany (A LOT of fun to research period maps to make up the battlefields). In the end and for the same historical reasons, the British side won. But having done that sort of took the steam out of the period. We wanted more options with cavalry and artillery and now are back to gaming the AWI. I sold my FIW units off probably about 6 years ago. Larry |
ironicon | 15 Jan 2015 12:43 p.m. PST |
I've toyed with the idea of doing FIW, but if I ever do I would try it in 40mm as a skirmish game. |
LostPict | 15 Jan 2015 1:28 p.m. PST |
FIW – Daniel Boone, young Washington, lots of Indians, Couer de Bois, lots of Indians, and those smashing looking high leggings. Planning to do the Cherokee War in NC/SC at some point. |
OSchmidt | 15 Jan 2015 1:52 p.m. PST |
Dear Saltflats 1939 I shan't call you a fool for you already admit that in your note. But don't be chagrined, we all have done it- started out with something that "We were going to do in a little way in small scale which needs less figures." Somewhere years later, and we all have more troop on the table than those which could have FIT on the plains of Abraham. (I don't mean the table, I mean the real fields in Quebec) |
Bill N | 15 Jan 2015 1:54 p.m. PST |
Honest answer-->Boredom. In the late 1970s/early 1980s I had done some frontier wargaming based on the AWI and F&IW seemed to offer more of the same. |
Rod MacArthur | 15 Jan 2015 3:38 p.m. PST |
I am coming to FIW from a different direction, starting with Jacobite Rebellion, using the British troops as well for War of Austrian Succession, so some French for that, and then using those French and British as the core for FIW, expanded with American, Canadian and Indian figures. Rod |
zippyfusenet | 15 Jan 2015 4:46 p.m. PST |
there are only two "battles" in the F&IW (Quebec and Ste Foy) You left out Lake George, Fort William Henry, Ticonderoga/Carillion, Braddock's Massacre, Grant's Massacre and La Belle Famille, all of which were multi-battalion actions, though the battalions were rather weak in some cases. Still, I take your point. There were a lot more battles and bigger battles in the AWI. |
nnascati | 15 Jan 2015 7:10 p.m. PST |
"The Last of the Mohicans" and "Northwest Passage". That being said however if I had the space and the money, I would do AWI in 40mm with the Trident figures. |
ge2002bill | 15 Jan 2015 8:51 p.m. PST |
F&I What If Non-Skirmish Games: --- 1755 Battle of Lake George (small) Part 1: Bloody Morning Scout Part 2: Assault on the Provincial lager. --- 1756 Oswego Siege (Get a relief column involved) --- 1757 Ditto at Fort William Henry. Look at a map of the area. There were two fortifications. It seems to me the Americans/Brits. in the second fortification could have done something differently. Or get the relief column weak as it was up the road from Ft. Edward 15 miles away. --- 1757 Have the Brits. attack de Levis going overland on the western shore of Lake George as Montcalm took the river group simultaneously down the lake. --- 1757 What IF: Montcalm heads south to Fort Edward after taking Fort William Henry. A good reason to call up the militia, other provincials and stop him. --- 1758 Siege at Fort Carillon (Ticonderoga) Do it with the French being outnumbered billions to one with a better British attack. --- 1758 Did you know de Levis was invading deep into NY to take out Albany? He abandoned the idea when a courier told him about Abercromby heading for Carillon. He got back just in time. What if local militia and provincials met him on the way? --- 1758 Naval assault on Gabrus Bay west of Louisbourg. D-Day anyone? --- 1759 Another British naval landing at Montmorency Falls east of Quebec. --- 1759 Battle of La Belle Famille. Do it at 1:5 or 1:10 and give the French better smarts to relieve Ft. Niagara. --- How about making stuff up like we used to do? --- 1759: Plains of Abraham: How about Montcalm pauses for the milice to gather in large numbers as they were about to do and de Levis gets back faster to attack the Brits. from the West. Had this happened, Quebec would not have fallen in 1759. Think British Square in big trouble in the Sudan. --- The F&I is not just about skirmishes. --- Respectfully, Bill P. |
marco56 | 15 Jan 2015 9:19 p.m. PST |
The FIW all the way. More frontier/wilderness flavor to it,Canadien Milice,Compagnie Franches de la Marines,Roger's Rangers,French and British regulars on a large scale for the first time in North America.Set piece battles,La Petite Guerre',sieges of forts and Indians,indians,and indians!It has it all. Mark |
nevinsrip | 16 Jan 2015 4:30 a.m. PST |
I live in NY and spent my childhood summers in the Lake George region. Fort William Henry and Ticonderoga were visited every summer. There is so much history there. Movies like LOTM (the original), Northwest Passage and Drums Along the Mohawk just enriched a childs imagination. I use to enjoy walking through the forest, looking out over the lake and imagining the battles, ambushes and skirmishes that real people had fought on these lands. It brought the F&I War home for me. But NY is also home to Saratoga, West Point, Long Island, Washington Heights, White Plains and on and on. I've been to all of the known sites. Saratoga really stands out as they have the best museum and battlefield. West Point is one of a kind and always worth a visit. There's even a monunment to the Marylanders who covered Washingtons retreat in Brooklyn. The AWI runs all through NY. Luckily for me, my relatives had a sense of history and they passed it down to me. As for toy soldiers, the Marx Giant Blue and Gray set was my first introduction into the miniature world of battle. Anyone who ever owned that set will tell you: 1) That they wish that they still had it. and: 2) That it was the greatest toy that they ever owned. So actually the ACW came first for me. I still enjoy that and alway will. I also have collections of the War of 1812 and the Wild West. I enjoy it all. |
138SquadronRAF | 16 Jan 2015 9:41 a.m. PST |
Neither – give me the European wars any day of the week. |
mashrewba | 16 Jan 2015 12:55 p.m. PST |
There are some great figures for FIW and I grew up avidly reading Rogers Rangers in Look and Learn but I went for AWI because I just don't have that many trees!!! |
OSchmidt | 16 Jan 2015 2:03 p.m. PST |
War of the Spanish Succession, War of the Polish Succession, Great Northern War, War of the Austrian Success, French and Indian War, Seven years War, Jenkin's Ear, king Phillips War, Queen Anne's War, Russo-Austro-Turko Polish Wars, War of the Venetians against the Turks, blah blah blah, they are all of a fascinating interest to me. I can do them all because I do Imagi-Nations. What brought me to the love of the 18th Century was the Music, the Myth, and the art. The MUSIC Mozart, Paisiello, Haydn, Boccharini, Scarlatii, Bach, (all three of them) Handel, Gluck, Salieri, Le Duc, Neubauer, Bender, the music is wonderfully beautiful with a charm and a pace that soothes one's nerves and makes one pleasant. Haydn wrote perhaps the best piece to describe troops moving in the second movement of his "Symphony #100, the Clock." Nothing can make one smile more than the "Cherubino Aria " from La Nozze de Figaro" (which has been made and remade into many marches. Just out of the period is the other great master- Rossini. The MYTH- Warfare is an ugly business but it seems to me that in the 18th century they came closest to making it at least tolerably civilized. Unless you were fighting the Turks people did not massacre whole populations, lay waste the earth, and outdo each other in Atrocity. You began the campaigning season by coming out of comfortable winter quarters when the weather was at leas halfway decent, somewhere around April 1, and the armies moved about the countryside in an intricate minuet moving from position to position, and coiling and uncoiling themselves from each mountaintop position to another. There were battles, and big ones, but no one fought them to the extinction of man. There were sieges, which were much more popular because they could be controlled. Here, you could sit yourself down before a town and begina proper, civilized siege. You would dig your lines and parallels, and the enemy would try and hinder you, but eventually there would come a time when you would pass an officer under a white flag to the enemy gate and call for a parlay. There you would tell your opponent. "Sir, I have mounted my breeching batteries on your counterscarp. I have driven my mines forty yards under your curtain. If tomorrow I blow my mines and give fire to my guns, you will lose, three redoubts, four ravelins, fifteen demi-lunes and twenty five counterguards where as you can demolish only 5 miles of my trenches you will clearly see that I have won and you have lost. Please consider terms for an honorable surrender to spare a horrible and useless effusion of blood. Whereupon your enemy would take out a pencil and bit of paper and check your figures, he would be taken, blindfolded to inspect your mine galleries, your batteries, and the troops turned out in their best finery for the assault. He would walk the trenches and see all was true. Then he would turn to you and say "Monsieur, I see that you are right and have won, and I have lost. Please allow me to surrender on honorable terms." He will reach for his sword buckle, but you step forward and say "Sir! Please! I would no more take your sword as I would strike the pen from the hand of Erasmus or the Brush from the hand of Rembrandt! He would say "My Lord you are too kind. What terms do you require?" You will say "None that you do not care to write yourself. I am sure that whatever you chose will be honorable and adequate. He will say" The please, allow me to invite you to dine with me tonight in the fortress." You will agree and add "provided only sir that we dine on whatever fare your brave and gallant soldiers shall share. You will then have some of the most unappetizing and thin horsemeat you have ever had in your life, but you will share an excellent bottle of Tokay. The next day you will have your army lined up on the road out of the place. The gates will open, and the garrison will march out with flags flying and drums beating. Your bands will strike up and play marches and ditties from the defeated side, which will be alternated by the garrison playing those of yours. Immediately officers of both sides will break ranks to fraternize with the other side, after all many are friends and served together before, and many are related. If you were captured your time was not unpleasant. If an officer you will be in high demand by all the local families to come to dinner and tall all the gossip you know (these places in the country are so terribly isolated, and the clamor for any sort of news from outside the circle of mountains around their valley. Your greatest danger will be your weight as you are trucked around from home to home where the families have slain a goose or the fatted calf to make a sumptuous feast, and parade in front of you all their unmarried daughters. If you are from the ranks it won't be much different. The poor have unmarried daughters too, and if you have a trade you can pick up a nice bit of money as well, and if on another frontier, might agree to serve till exchanged, in a garrison against a non-beligerant. THE ART- For me there is something beautiful and hypnotic about the art. Lush zaftig women, gentle movements, warm slight miles and amusing scenes of revelers, lovers, ornate clothes, balls, dances, and costumes, putti, angels, saints, and peasants, all dancing or posing or staring out at you from behind the canvas. Delightful countryside scenes, or urban grubbiness between the palaces. The best way to understand this, (for when I see these paintings the music is playing in my head) is to watch Barry Lyndon. Practically every scene in there either could be straight out of a painting or was straight out of one. War is still war, but beyond that it is a time of unbelievable beauty, gentility, and pleasure. |
ScottS | 16 Jan 2015 2:15 p.m. PST |
OSchmidt, I need to wargame with you some day. |
OSchmidt | 16 Jan 2015 2:39 p.m. PST |
Dear ScottS Sure! Where you located? I'm in North Western New Jersey. You're welcome any time. If you want, send me your postal delivery address to me at sigurd@eclipse.net I'll send you the directions and invite. Oh by the way, if you come to "THE WEEKEND" in Lancaster in June, you'll find about fifty other guys who game the same way. In attempting to do a bit of "verite" to the game, I always serve a nice dinner afterwards. Chicken Cacciatore, Fettucini Puttanesca, Sauerbraaten, Roast chicken… Lots of wine. If you can come over, plese let me know, we'd be glad to have you over. I firmly believe that a game need not be realistic, but it must be beautiful, and you must wish to be drawn into it. Remember, The Prince De Soubise might have had 40 cooks and one spy. But nobody out of war games knows about Frederick the Great, but Soubise has a sauce named after him. Frederick won all those battles, but the King of Saxony had all those paintings and snuffboxes which stuff our museums and have his name plastered on the brass plaques. I mean, really--- How can Potsdam compare with the Saxon Palace of Augustus the strong the gardens, collonades and shrines of which he lined with satues of his mistress. It was time when it was good to be the king. |
ScottS | 16 Jan 2015 2:59 p.m. PST |
Alas, even though I grew up in New Jersey (Woodbridge) I moved long ago and now reside in far-away Colorado. That said, I still have family in the area and return on occasion. Perhaps I cold convince my wife that I *need* to bring some well-painted troops with me on our next trip east… |
Field Marshal | 17 Jan 2015 9:11 p.m. PST |
Thanks fro all the replies….only problem is I still dont know which one to go for in 28mm for Muskets and Tomahawks….:) |
marco56 | 18 Jan 2015 6:25 a.m. PST |
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InquisitorMoloko | 18 Jan 2015 7:59 a.m. PST |
Field Marshal, If you're interested in getting into the game fast and cheap, I can strongly recommend the Wargames Factory plastic AWI boxes. If that isn't a factor for you, why not pick a period based on a miniatures line that really appeals to you. Nothing helps a project along better than being revved up about the figs! |
nevinsrip | 19 Jan 2015 3:59 a.m. PST |
Thanks fro all the replies….only problem is I still dont know which one to go for in 28mm for Muskets and Tomahawks….:) Start with figures that you can use in both, like Indians, Rangers, Settlers and militia/frontiersmen. Paint those up and see where it takes you. A palisade fort and blockhouse is good for both. Raids along the NY frontier didn't change much from the F&I War right through the AWI. It's a good place to start. |
Dave Crowell | 22 Jan 2015 9:54 a.m. PST |
I made it easy on myself. I just plumped for the one George Washington fought in. ;) |
The Gray Ghost | 22 Jan 2015 4:56 p.m. PST |
I just started wargaming shortly before the Bicentennial and loads of books were put out for it. |
epturner | 23 Jan 2015 10:10 p.m. PST |
I do both. I love both periods. Just me. Eric |