"wargaming the desert vs europe" Topic

ok guys, another dumb question. from a gaming standpoint, how is gaming the desert campaign different than Europe? I'm guessing that the tanks are a little more evenly matched? By the way, I'm mostly looking at reinforced platoon level or lower, but in general also would be good.

thanks guys.

ps: i have a ox of the perry DAK and the Desert Rats, and I was planning on putting the pith helmets on the Brits, thereby increasing their Britishness tenfold! did they wear them at all?

In my opinion, the Western Desert is much more suited to armor only battles. Infantry just don't do well in open country during the period.
While I've seen plenty of pictures showing British troops arriving in Egypt in sun helmets, I don't think I've seen any of such headgear being worn in action.

At the reinforced platoon level, really not a lick of difference. Tactics were in flux throughout the period and that is part of it. The long site distances being another.

The desert is all about the tanks. It was maneuver warfare at the strategic level in an accomodating environment for such operations.

But a platoon of PBI defending a village against another platoon of PBI, not really all that different.

Check out the 'chain of command' after action reports – lots of desert games there using infantry and some armor/armor car support.

Historically, there was one incident where an entire battalion of British infantry was deployed in the desert, and their own armor support failed to arrive through a screwup of one sort or another.

A German force of mixed armor and infantry arrived, and after ten minutes of the German tanks shooting up the British infantry positions, the entire British battalion surrendered. The Germans had offered surrender because both sides recognised the pointlessness of continued British resistance, because infantry in the desert, with no supporting AT guns or tanks on its own side, could do absolutely nothing against an attacking tank force.

That wouldn't have happened in continental Europe. Or later in the war.

For reasons mentioned above, I'm leaning more towards using my Perry DAK/Brits/Italians in the Aegean or Sicily. I guess Tunisia might be more infantry friendly too?

Do the desert, then move to Italy, then join in and storm Juno and bash on to the Rhine. Desert, as mentioned, is tank country, but you can have raids and small oasis/supply depot actions with a reinforced platoon of PBI. Italy, close country with narrow roads, villages and restricting terrain. Use your 28mm miniatures to move up the boot. ETO is a no go with the Perry plastics, but they do have some metals you could use to expand your beachhead. Leave the pith helmets in the lorry, although they do look snazzy on the Italians. If your Desert Rats wear them, roll a d6 and on a 2-6, the British are mistaken for Italians and receive "friendly fire". On a 1, they are all declared "archeologists" and must spend a turn digging.

Not sure that reinforced platoons will work. As has been said the Desert is tank vs anti tank parts of crusade. Tank vs pop gun on the back of a lorry or tank vs tank. All these need reasonably larege (bigger than a platoon to work. With some exceptions infantry battles tend to be almost siege games with the infantry dug in behind minefields.

You can get some difficult issues. How do you model italian tanks with no radios vs the Brits with radios? It can degenerate into a boreing slaughter of italians.

Open country is not small action space as has been said.

For platoon sized actions you need more dense terrain, so NWE, Italy, maybe Tunisia. There are only so many times you can storm bunkers around Tobruk or scramble up the escarpment by Sidi Rezegh.

Fun to game with tanks, tanks, tanks – as noted, infantry alone don't do so well

One proviso is that gaming Italian armour is no fun – we used to play a game where the British player had one Matilda and the Italian had 10 M-14s; I do not recall the Italians ever winning

Sun helmets were certainly worn in action in East Africa and the Far East, but seemingly not in North Africa.

A platoon of infantry vs another platoon just did not happen very often in North Africa due to terrain. Skirmish gaming there would be more limited, as it was in real life, Rat Patrol not withstanding but imo that tv show is more pulp than reality. Frederick is right. It will get dull quickly.

Real men fight in hedgerows.

Dont forget East Africa/Eritrea for inf vs. inf. No DAK but very interesting.

Desert Rats! Night raids on airfields and supply depots. Can they get in, destroy everything and get back out before the defence can organise itself? Great scope for hundreds of scenarios. As mentioned, infantry play a secondary role otherwise.

I love the desert because of all the adventure and heroics involved. Plus it was known as "The Gentlemen's War" which I like. I use planes, supply depots, truck convoys in almost every scenario as it adds a touch of adventure to your basic WW2 shootout. Also, very easy to get the table going as it is desert and rather sparse. Although a major mistake, I think, is that people make it too uninhabited and desolate.

This is how I like my games:

I chose the North African campaigns exclusively because of the same reasons above. Room for tanks to move, use of minefields and AT guns to funnel the action to where you want. Infantry can be vulnerable without support but that applies to all WW2 theatres. I only have 2 Tigers for the DAK and they hardly ever get used. Lots of fun having relatively obsolete equipment and using them as best you can.

There tends to be a lot more trees………..

A lot less trees in the desert. A few ridges or rock outcrops, maybe a dune or two…

Didn't Rommel say something like " The Desert is a tactician's dream and logistician's nightmare." I've been in both roles … and it sucked regardless. However, as many noted here. The desert does give you longer LOS/ranges. Infantry that is motorized/mechanized that can keep up with armor is very effective. Use of limited terrain can be key., for example : The Halfaya Pass link and the Qattara Depression link . And again as mentioned, the combined arms concept the DAK demonstrated proved superior to any other oraganization, at the time. The lack of effective infantry AT weapons certainly put some infantry at a disadvantage in the early stages of the WWII. The AT rifle was of limited use at best. However, even the few "thoughtful" soldiers of the Kaiser, figured out quickly how field artillery pieces in the direct fire role could be very effective against the Brit and French "Devil's Coaches". So even the WWII, 37mm, 2lbrs., 47mm, etc. initiatly prove effective if deployed correctly. So that is something to think about when designing WWII NA scenarios. And I highly recommend getting a hold of the old AH "Tobruk" game. It's any excellent vehicle for scenarios, weapons data, organizations etc. … Of course my favorite small level scenarios involve the LRDG, SAS, SIG, Brandenburgers, etc. … TMP link

I found the book "Benghazi Handicap" link to be informative, although it is more relevant to 1-5-ratio gaming such as CCTOB / Spearpoint rules.

For example, "… This rule represents the effects of heat shimmer as well as dust on spotting. Heat shimmer and dust raised by any sort of wind or movement close to the gound made it difficult to identify objects within one or two meters of the surface. However, observers on even very slight elevations could see over the shimmer, and spot enemy troops at much greater distances. This is one of the reasons that bitter battles were fought over pieces of "high ground" which would have gone completely unnoticed anywhere else. …".

BTW, desert infantry is definately useful in the CCTOB universe.

MH

If you are tempted by both the North African and European campaigns, I suggest giving a fair consideration to Tunisia.

This is one of my favorite campaigns to game. You can build a late North African dessert force, or an early European force, or both! Brits can use Valentines, Grants and Crusaders if they appeal to your tastes, or Shermans and Churchills if you prefer. Germans get to use almost any mark of the Pz III in volume, early short-barreled Pz IVEs or IVFs, later long-barreled Pz IVFs or IVGs, and even some Tigers.

And … if you find yourself gaming with guys who don't have a Brit or German force to match yours, you can battle with Italians (in tropical or continental uniforms), French, or Americans. And you can have those very unusual WW2 units like Camel troops or Spahi's running around, if odd units interest you.

You can make your terrain reasonably open or dense, or both. Tunisia had open desert terrain, rugged mountains, grassy plains, rivers and lakes, and dense coastal cities.

Some examples from my Tunisia gaming:

The village of Hir Moussa in the Ousseltia valley. I ran a battle here with two Italian forces (one recon force, one tank-infantry force) trying to dislocate a French infantry force that was desperately awaiting rescue by detatched American armor to arrive.

My forces for Tunisia include US Army forces, including various wonderful early US pieces of kit.

For example here are US M3 75mm tank destroyers, just arriving to back up the French at Hir Moussa.

And what self-respecting miniatures gamer doesn't relish the opportunity of bringing US M3 Mediums into a fight …

… particularly when the M3s might face Tigers, or might just as easily run into Italian M13s or M14s?

French colonial forces in tropical uniforms (shown here, based on GHQ Romanian infantry).

While most of my Italian infantry are in continental uniforms (making them equally appropriate for Sicily or Eastern Front gaming).

And the Italian Sahariana are almost irresistible!

So … game whatever theater/campaign spikes your interest, but do give some consideration to Tunisia. It makes for lots of interesting battles!

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

The terrain is of course a lot more limited. Most pics I've seen show nearly completely open terrain and very often flat or near flat.

It's why things like ridges were so important. And infantry was often deployed behind lots of minefields etc.

Tunisia was a bit more varied but even then it was often quite open ala El Guettar.