"Company fanions for Bavarian Line and Light Infantry" Topic

I am in the process of completing some Bavarian line and light, most of which are Perry sculpts. Their command sets have sappers entrusted with the defense of the company fanions. I checked Nafziger, Rawkins, Elting the Cantler plates and my trusty Osprey Flags of the Napoleonic Wars but got nowhere.

Googling the topic led me to link which although it had some firm suggestions was inconclusive (welcome to Napoleonic research I guess is the point). A painting by Hess re battle of Wörgel, 13 May1809 depicted fanions as 4 triangles on the diagonal with central motif, red on top and bottom, and it seems black or dark green on the side triangles, whilst a 1929 German article "Zeitschrift für Heereskunde", no. 9(without giving primary sources) provided:

"Black pole with brass tip; the fanion had the regimental colour on top, the triangle beneath was green (fusiliers) or light blue (grenadiers); on the middle of the fanion a black sign, surrounded with red, bearing the yellow company number (grenadiers a black grenade instead of this company sign); the fanion was mostly carried by the sappers." On my reading not much indication of the colour of the side triangles…

Hess was said in the thread to be a painter not noted for his historical accuracy, but for a fabulous style (an attitude which is greatly appealing to me! – his picture is a corker!). However, having come this far on my little quest, I thought I should see if anyone else had looked at this, perhaps someone with far greater research skills than me? Any assistance greatly appreciated.

I find the painting by Hess quite good also regarding his historical accuracy.

I cannot add anything worthwhile to your research, the lowever triangle was of the coat colour the upper triangle of collar's collar.

In the middle a black shield with the number of the regiment or battalion (light infantry) – of the button colour.

that is what I found in the regimental histories which are quite detailed for some regiments.

In Die Bayerische Armee 1806 – 1813 the above text is repeated but also that for Grenadier companies the shield was a black grenade with the regimental number, for others a "heart" shaped shield.

On regiments with black facings – the shield should have been of different colour.

In the above mentioned book they show a fannion of the 4th light battalion with the lower part in facing colour, the top in green , the shield a red square and the number 4 in yellow.

I don't know on what shource this is based upon.

As for the 13th regimental fanion, I would go for that one Hess is showing, despite it is different to the written regulations

TMBTE,

Your link gives a "bad link" result. Here is the actual thread which was started in 2003 (sadly, Steve Smith never did come back with his findings!!!).

link

von W thanks for your post – I forgot to add the reference in Die Bayeriche Armee, which I have open in front of me as my uniform guide!

SM – sorry about the bad link; thanks for correcting it.

Cheers

Thanks for the link, that reminds me of the print of Hahn, showing a totaly different fanion, but Hahn is showing the Bavarian army of about 1805 / 06 – so there might be a differnce due to time.

The whole idea, that a fanion is carried by a Zimmermann, gives, frankly for me, no sense.

In case it is used for marking companies or wings of battalions – is should be carried by NCOs, as it was done usually in the army.

On the other hand, such fanions could be just simply company markers for establishing camp position, so as a solider when you arrive at camp you will find your company and or the place where your company has to errect their camp street.

Such company markers for the camp where widespreadly known.

In case they could still be used for some purpose to form a unit – I have to find it again, but i have a quote of an British eye witness where such fanions were used to form the battalion when the got ashore in 1799

"On the other hand, such fanions could be just simply company markers for establishing camp position"
I agree with von Winterfeldt – I think that is what we are looking at here. It could not be a fanion for alignment unless carried in a position which marked the alignment.

"Such company markers for the camp where widespreadly known."
Yes – the Russians did have these and did *not* use platoon (or company) fanions for alignment.

- Sasha

Since the pioneers would generally go ahead and clear the ground for an encampment, it makes sense that they would have what were known in British parlance as "camp colours" (the British only ever used these in encampments, never in battle) to denote the positions of each sub-unit in the regiment and battalions.

Thanks to Steve H Smith at NSF see

this is from the

Die Bayerische Armee 1806 – 1813

you see the difference they give for light infantry bat. Nr.4
according to the rules the green should be at the bottom and not at the top

visit the napoleon-series.org website, our great mentor Steve Smith put up links to the Bavarian drill regulations of 1823, the placing of the Jaloneurs might be mentioned in the text or the plates