"Damiler Dingo usage in Normandy" Topic

i have bought a damiler dingo to do as part of a recce squadron, but my research has shown that they mostly used the humber scout car instead.

Where else would dingos be in either armoured brigades or infantry divisions?

Thanks

Leigh

from wiki:

The Dingo was first used by the British Expeditionary Force (1st Armoured Division and 4th Royal Northumberland Fusiliers) during the Battle of France. It turned out to be so successful that no replacement was sought until 1952 with the production of the Daimler Ferret. Principal users were reconnaissance units with a typical late-war recce troop consisting of two Daimler Armoured Cars and two Daimler Dingoes. The vehicle was highly sought-after with damaged Dingoes often being recovered from vehicle dumps and reconditioned for use as private runabouts. One such 'off establishment' vehicle was rebuilt from two damaged Dingoes in Normandy, 1944, by REME vehicle fitters of 86th Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal Artillery. They operated this Dingo for about a week before a higher-ranking officer spotted it and commandeered it for himself.

Thanks olicana. I had checked Wikipedia. Although it says typical late war org, my research into normandy usage says that recce regts used 2 humber a/cars and 2 h7mber scout cars.

I need to know where else dingos were used.

Leigh

I think the rule of thumb is Humbers in Armo(u)red divisions, Dingoes in Infantry divisions.

Other way around – Dingoes were chiefly found in the armoured car regiments, Humbers in the infantry division recce regiments. Tons of info here:

link

Ehh, thanks, Dom!

Hi Leigh,

The Recce Regts used mainly Humber LIGHT RECCE Cars, which were a very different beast to the Humber Scout Car, so make sure you get the right models. It's a very common and easy mistake to make.

This is the one you want – the Humber Light Recce Car:

This is the one to avoid – the Humber Scout Car:

The main use for Dingos in NW Europe was in the Corps Armoured Car Regiments, where they were paired up with Daimler Armoured Cars. Other units did get the odd Dingo as command and liaison vehicles, though that role was normally taken by the Humber Scout Car.

As mentioned, the Humber Scout Car was mainly used as a HQ liaison vehicle – chiefly in armoured regiments, though you might find the odd one in other HQs.

Typical Recce Sqn organisation was:

Armoured Car Troop – 6x Humber LRC & 6x Humber Mk IV Armoured Car

3x Recce Troops – each with 7x Universal Carriers

Assault Troop – 4x Halftracks

There would also normally be an AT Section of 6pdrs and a Mortar Section attached from Regiment.

Good info…learned somethin' new

I don't think I've ever seen a Humber light recce car on a wargame table. Does anybody make them?

Mine are in there somewhere:

About 15 years ago they were very difficult to get in any scale and NOBODY did them in 15mm, though that's all changed now and there are plenty of models available (though not in 28mm, I understand).

Oh I should have added that Recce Sqn HQ vehicles were usually M3A1 Scout Cars or some other form of armoured light truck (or perhaps another Humber LRC).

Dom, I would look at the site again.

The miost important point is that humber light recce are not listed as they are B type vehicles.

The humber scout car is listed for the armoured divisions and tank brigades. It was used as a hq vehicle but not exclusively at the hq's at all.

Humber Scout Cars were exclusively HQ vehicles, being designed specifically for use as a radio liaison car and assigned exclusively to unit HQ Liaison Troops/Platoons.

However, in the latter part of the war, lines got blurred slightly as Armoured Regiment HQs sometimes combined their Recce Troops (Stuarts) & Liaison Troops (Humber Scout Cars). Nevertheless, the Humber Scout Cars were still part of the HQ Squadron regardless.

The Recce Regiments in NW Europe used exclusively Humber LRCs as their main light recce car. They had replaced Morris LRCs in that role prior to Normandy. The Canadians had also ditched the Otter LRC before Normandy, replacing them with yet more Humber LRCs.

Things were somewhat more complicated in Italy and even more so in Burma…

I should also add that Engineer Field Companies/Squadrons also used LRCs in the Engineer Recce Role – Humber, Otter and Morris LRCs were all used for that role in NW Europe. The RAF Regiment's Armoured Car Squadrons in NW Europe also used the Humber LRC as their main vehicle.

I'm always surprised and delighted how you guys can make an arcane topic comprehensible. I now really want a Humber Light Recce Car in 28mm! Jemima Fawr, can you tell me what the sort of wire-looking structure surrounding the turret of the HLRC is? I presume it has something to do with with the machine gun mount -- an anti-aircraft sight mount maybe?

I do like your toys Jemima!
Recce units in Burma is an interesting question…anybody want to weigh in?

Ah yes, it's part of the high-angle Bren mount. Here's a better view:

Thanks UFB, as one UFB to another… That pic is part of one of our big games at the annual Bovington show – elements of 53 Recce Regiment crossing an AT ditch on their way to 's-Hertogenbosch, along with the 1st East Lancs loaded in Kangaroos. The rest of the photos are on here (Bovington 2010): link

Ah now Recce Regiments in Burma… strewth… Well not including the one that was turned into Chindits, you had:

2 Recce Regt – no armoured cars or LRCs. Mostly converted to Jeeps, though retained some Carriers, including some interesting locally-converted SP 3-inch Mortars. Fought from Kohima onwards with 2nd Division.

81 (West African) Recce Regiment – retained its mechanisation (Carriers and an unidentified type of Light Recce Car) for the first half of 1944, though was detached from its parent division to serve as XV Corps Recce Regt. It was converted to light (waterborne) recce during the monsoon of 1944.

82 (West African) Recce Regiment – spent the entire time in Burma as light recce.

Indian 16th Light Cavalry – an Armoured Car Regiment equipped mainly with Daimler Armoured Cars, Fox Mk II Armoured Cars (sometimes referred to as Humber Mk IV, which they closely resembled) and Daimler Dingos. Each Squadron also had a Jeep-mounted Troop or two, as well as SP 3-inch mortars mounted in Indian Pattern Wheeled Carriers. The regiment served as an Army-level asset.

Indian 11th Cavalry (Prince Albert Victor's Own) – organised much the same as the 16th Cavalry, though with Daimlers as the only armoured car type (no Humber or Fox). Served as IV Corps recce regt.

Indian 8th (KGV's Own) Lancers – served for a time as 19th Indian Division recce regiment. Organised much the same as the 16th Cavalry.

3rd Gwalior Lancers – served for a time as XV Corps Recce Regt until the arrival of 81 Recce Regt in Dec 43. The regiment had a Horsed Wing and a Mechanised Wing, but no more details are known. The Mechanised Wing does not appear to have seen any action, though the Horsed Wing was engaged during the 2nd Arakan Campaign, along with some mounted troops of the Jodhpur Lancers.

Indian 7th Cavalry – a Stuart-equipped armoured regiment. Served mainly with 254th Indian Tank Brigade.

Indian 45th Cavalry – a Stuart-equipped armoured regiment. Served initially as XXXIII Corps Troops and then with 50th Indian Tank Brigade.

Each Indian Division, plus 11th East African Division, also formed 'Recce Battalions'. These were standard infantry battalions with three companies instead of four, but with each company having four platoons.

The 11th East African Division also had a curious Scout Battalion, which was essentially an infantry battalion with very little in the way of heavy weapons. They were detached and ended up serving with 81st (West African) Division.

There were also a few very similar scout units formed by the semi-independent Indian States. The 1st Tripura Rifles was one such regiment, which again served with 81st (West African) Division for a time. It was organised into two 'Wings', which were essentially like large companies. There were no weapons heavier than Brens.

What an answer!

And Canadians used their own variation of the Dingo, the Ford Lynx. Longer engine deck, higher suspension — I'm converting a 1/56 one now from Warlord's Dingo kit.

12th Manitoban Dragoons, Armoured Car Regt for Canadian II Corps, had 2 Staghounds and a Lynx in every troop, and a Lynx in each of their infantry support troop too. And the tank regiments had one in each SHQ.

link

I must confess that it's a pet subject: PDF link

Thanks all, super info. I will have to absorb this and see what I could mark my dingo up as. Or maybe just get a humber scout car!!
Leigh

The Dingo was also used by Germans and Italians whenever possible. The Italians even made their own copy, the Lince. For fun check out the Australian Dingo.

Jemima- I should have recognised you when you referred to the RAF Regiment Armoured Car Squadrons…

Sshhh! I'm in disguise…

Any idea who makes these little criters in 20mm?
(the humber light recce car)
Milicast do (expensive)
raventhorpe do (clunky)

Any happy medium?

LOL, who else did you think Jemima was?

Someone else will be asking about Mike Snorbens next.

Anyway, I thought Frontline might do a resin Humber LRC but it seems they only do the scout car and armoured car.

I'm Brian (and so's my wife)!

2nd Derbyshire Yeomanry RAC as part of 51 Highland Division used Daimlers in Normandy.

Hi Diceman,

2nd Derbyshire Yeomanry deployed to Normandy with Humber Mk IV Armoured Cars and Humber Mk III LRCs. However, the Mk IV Armoured Cars were replaced by Daimler Armoured Cars very late in the Normandy Campaign (the first one arrived on 28th July and the rest were meant to arrive in August, though I don't have an actual date of complete re-equipment).

The LRCs however remained. They were not, to the best of my knowledge, replaced by Dingos.

There were a few British & Canadian Recce Regts that replaced their Humber Mk IV Armoured Cars toward the end of the war with Daimler Armoured Cars, though the Humber LRCs remained.

56 Recce Regt in Italy was even more unusual, in that it received Greyhound Armoured Cars during mid-1944.

To add to the above from 21st Army Group Strength Returns:

By the end of December 1944, 51st Highland Division (2nd Derbyshire Yeomanry) had completely replaced its Humber Mk IV Armoured Cars with Daimler Armoured Cars. There were no Dingos.

Additionally, the 3rd Div, 2nd Canadian Div and 3rd Canadian Div were also in the process of converting their Humber Mk IV Armoured Cars to Daimler Armoured Cars, though all still had a few Humber Armoured Cars still on the books.

By the end of June 1945, the 5th Division's & 43rd Division's Recce Regiments had also converted to Daimler Armoured Cars.

Note that there is an anomaly with 3rd Division's returns for December 1944, as it appears that the division had stacks of armoured cars of all types, plus Dingos. However, this is due to the simple fact that the 1st Dragoons (normally I Corps Armoured Car Regt) were co-located with the division at that moment in time, so its vehicles are included in the 3rd Division totals.

So that will be a no, then?

Never say never :)