"Atmospheric combat" Topic

On the "SF Discussion" board I posted this:

Being the aerial freak that I am, I realized that there are WW1, WW2, Post-WW2, niche wars like SCW rules for aerial combat but nothing for SF thta I know of…

Not space combat but solid planet bound aerial combat in "the future."

So, what rules for SF aerial combat am I unaware of?

due to lockfile issues I failed to crosspost.

Considering what to do about that afterwards I wondered if any space combat guys/gals might have some ideas on rules adaptable to atmospheric aerial combat gaming in "the future."

These rules are for future fighter combat and I see no reason they cannot be used in atmospheric combat.
link

Aeronautica Imperialis for 40K. Actually more "realistic" than I ever would have expected.

2300AD (Traveller 2300) had sketchy rules for air combat. Some versions of Traveller can accomodate air combat.

Air War C21 started life as a set of SF air combat rules (written for an SFSFW parti game at Salute)

Yay, my future Russian fiancé's photo is back!!!

Uh, hmmm. Sorry, got a little distracted (he said, sheepishly).

She does have an alluring smile, and beautiful eyes though, don't you think?

Oh, right, back to the subject at hand.

What was the question???

Ah, yes.

Iron Hawk, which if I recall correctly is sort of a bolt-on, or follow-on set of rules to go with Iron Cow (could be mistaken about that).

Not sure if they are an official Wessex product, or a free set of rules available on the Wessex Games Yahoo Group. I suspect someone will be along shortly to provide more info about that.

I think Air War:C21 rules could easily be adapted to the SF genre.

Perhaps AeroTech can also be modified for atmospheric combat.

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Traveller had a whole supplement on it – COACC.

Silent Death could easily be turned into an air combat game (just by swapping a black hex sheet for a green one…).

G.

I always wanted to set a game in the universe of Super Sylph Yukikaze, with its sentient aircraft and airborne, dimension-hopping aliens…

YouTube link

But, failing that, +1 for Aeronautica Imperialis. And Dan Abnett's 'Double Eagle' is one of the best air combat novels I've ever read.

MacrossMartin,

"… can they defeat an enemy possessed by daemons?…"

Um, this sounds more fantasy then Science fiction…

"Um, this sounds more fantasy then Science fiction…"

Well, That depends upon the origin of the demons. Perhaps the demons are there because a military experiment being conducted at a base on Mars has gone awry opening a portal to hell a la the video game Doom or the artificial black hole drive On your spaceship has malfunctioned opening, of course, a portal to hell as in the (in my opinion awful) movie Event Horizon starring Sam Neill and Laurence Fishburne.

Now, I'm not a big fan of this particular scifi trope where meddling scientists open rifts to hell dimensions, but just because there are are demons it doesn't mean it's not (bad) science fiction.

Top Gun (FASA) had rules to port over LAM (Land Air Mechs) from Battletech into an air to air whizz bang shoot down fest…

I have to say however that I find modern combat air to air simulation games not as exciting as the 50s-60s, as it is mostly BVR (beyond visual range) missile fire now…

"Some versions of Traveller can accomodate air combat."

MegaTraveller COACC mentioned above

and Classic Traveller
JTAS #14 'Foxhound' a variant for Striker

Silent Death has some rules for fighting in atmosphere but they are limited to the upper reaches. Basically some craft have atmospheric ability and can enter atmosphere to escape or evade an opponent. Been awhile since I have read up on the specifics as I mis-placed my one book that went into it, and am waiting for a replacement.

Dirtside also has some limited info on air combat. Look them up as the books are free now.

"JTAS #14 'Foxhound' a variant for Striker"

Very, very abstract. Of course, J.D. Webster was a real-life Navy A-4 and ANG F-16 pilot.

"I have to say however that I find modern combat air to air simulation games not as exciting as the 50s-60s, as it is mostly BVR (beyond visual range) missile fire now…"

[shakes head in sorrow …] Only when one side is totally dominant.

Only when one side is totally dominant.

Was thinking similar; too many battles are lopsided one way or another, and uninteresting.

That said, the 'rise' of drones, and the plans, somewhat scary, for autonomy, is more a threat to our beloved games.

Lastly, it's arguable if 'atmosphere' matters that much. New tech will probably defeat all the issues currently making it different from space, and it IS a thin skin.

Even the Traveller vaunted SDB's hiding in ocean basins is becoming a questionable tactic.

Doug

Doug

I chased down the stats I'd posted here for Supersylph Yukikaze planes in Air War: C21. They're supposed to be pretty damn scary! TMP link

One of the interesting assumptions that a lot of scifi settings are starting to make is that stealth may be good enough to more or less prevent BVR combat. Yukikaze certainly comes close to this, though the birds do carry long-range missiles.

One thing to remember is that modern airplanes are able to maneuver immensely faster than a deep-space craft. Modern airplanes are barely capable of acceleration over 1 gee straight ahead, but are easily capable of 7 gees in turns.