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"Discretionary Valor?" Topic


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grommet3706 Jan 2015 12:16 a.m. PST

So, I'm reading Duffy's The Military Life of Frederick the Great, and I've come across the third instance where FtG has "left the scene before the end of the battle". Being that he is a sovereign monarch, an Elector of the Empire and waging war against the Imperial House, I can see why he wouldn't want to be captured.

My question is this: Was this a fairly common occurrence for field commanders?

I'm not besmirching his bravery or his leadership; earlier in the day he was vigorously trying to rally the troops. He often rode with the advance guard, and had nearly been captured by hussars. His personal baggage had been raided. He had to ride back, before Kolin (IIRC) to avoid hussars (near Moltitz). So the danger of being captured was real. From his correspondence, it seems as if he'd prefer death.

His first time (at Mollwitz) was a mulligan. He was new. He blamed Schwerin, for winning the battle after he left.

He left Lobositz, but that must've been mighty depressing, seeing the cavalry eaten up when he initially thought he was just facing a rear guard.

And he left Kolin, when it became apparent that the breakthrough had been disastrously successful and completely unsupported.

So, I'm not saying he wasn't a brilliant field commander or outstandingly brave. I'm just wondering how common of a practice this was. Was the commander supposed to do a James Brown, and be carried off the stage? Did he have to wait for a subordinate to insist? Did his staff and his baggage accompany him? Did he just hand his dice to an adjutant? "I'll be at the bar…"

Musketier06 Jan 2015 4:29 a.m. PST

Sorry, I responded on Frederick at first, only belatedly realising that the question is really about other field commanders of the time.

Being both monarch and commander could be said to have created its own ambiguity of obligations. For "mere" generals-in-chief, the duty was much clearer: They were the ones who would have to plan and order the retreat if things went wrong, so an early departure was out of the question. As a result, some of them did get captured.

SJDonovan06 Jan 2015 4:58 a.m. PST

Napoleon fled the battlefield of Waterloo once he saw the game was up, and Ney in a letter to Fouché, later accused the emperor of having *entirely disappeared' without having informed him or the other field commanders of his plans. (Ney himself left the field in the mob of retreating soldiers. He was limping from a fall from his horse and was helped along the road by a corporal, having been abandoned by his staff.)

OSchmidt06 Jan 2015 11:25 a.m. PST

Sometimes a commander must leave the field for strategic reasons. A defeated army has only one aim, get away as best it can and a simple direction-- "Retire on XXXX" is often all that is needed. The subordinate generals can usually handle that pretty well. Supreme commanders may have things they have to do to retrieve the situation, call up more troops, raise them, make sure in Napoleon's case that Fouche and Talleyrand weren't conspiring with the allies (they were) and besides, the person of a soverign is a valuable thing.

Frederick's flight from Mollwitz can only be justified by the latter. But he fled on Schwerin's advice and Schwerin did it for exactly that reason, to prevent his person from being taken or killed, which would have been a dynastic disaster, and to give his troops one thing less to worry about.

Frederick was scared, but so was most of the whole army. It was for most of them their first battle.

Otto

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP09 Jan 2015 7:34 a.m. PST

In enterprise of martial kind,
When there was any fighting,
He led his regiment from behind
(He found it less exciting).
But when away his regiment ran,
His place was at the fore, O-
That celebrated,
Cultivated,
Underrated
Nobleman,
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!
In the first and foremost flight, ha, ha!
You always found that knight, ha, ha!
That celebrated,
Cultivated,
Underrated
Nobleman,
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!

evil grin

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