"Killed by Kickstarter?" Topic

I've seen at least three terrain kickstarters that overfunded and appear to have killed their parent company. I supported two of them. How many other gaming kickstarters have destroyed the company that launched them?

Besides overfunding what are other issues?

Terry

Which ones are you referring to?

What do you mean, "overfunded"? How would that destroy company?

If you don't have the infrastructure in place to be able to meet all of your promised deliveries then being "overfunded" by all the pre-orders might either delay the delivery date so far as to make you appear unreliable. Alternately you might have to hire a bunch of people to fill the orders in time and or expand existing infrastructure which then becomes a liability later when the short-term goal is reached.

Easy enough to do if one is not used to doing business.

Ah, I see. Thanks for explaining that. I can see how that would be a problem.

Over funding problems…possibly poor project and budget management is a more precise observation? Is certainly the case with Robotech, a nightmare that has yet to end.

Pictors nailed it though, general lack of business experience is a big one.

I suspect the time issue isn't a huge debacle, if everyone eventually gets their stuff, since few projects in the real world come in on budget, and on time.

I can definitely see where getting 10X the response you expected might be difficult to deal with, but with that much extra cash, people/companies should be able to hire assistants to help deal with that.

Another alternative would be to cap participation, and then take additional orders, as the first adopters get their deliveries.

Some I have seen seem to set limits on each level would that have helped to prevent over funding? I guess it would.

This might have something to do with it.

link

Although Kickstarter may not care if a project fails, the law does.

Kickstarter's TOS do indicate that they care about completion of projects by project owners and do expect them to operate within the law (it would be a really horrible business stance for them not to). The TOS also makes clear that they are providing facilitating infrastructure and nothing else to the crowdfunding process. I can see an initial reaction toward "why not?", but honestly, do you consider the webhosting or shopping cart functions that webretailers use to be responsible for the actions of those retailers or is that between customers and the actual retailers?

Right up near the top of the OTS is the expectation that project owners will comply with the law. I'm kind of surprised there haven't been more consumer protection lawsuits based on how long some things have taken. Even if you're communicating with customers, in most jurisdictions, you can't just put things off ad infinitum.

Which highlights another reason KS shouldn't be a middleman in the projects – lots of different local laws that overlap in different ways. There is no way they could monitor and moderate that. If you weren't allowed to provide the service without also being a middleman, there would be no consistent interfaces and methods and crowdfunding would be like the joyous adventure of going to the Department of Motor Vehicles for licenses and registrations. (Some places are proactive and tell you exactly what to do over the web before you get there; with others "Under certain circumstances, additional information and/or forms may be required:".)

As mentioned above, often times people do not realize that doing something and doing something as a business are fundamentally different things. As one of my PhD advisors put it many (, many, many … damn I'm old) years ago, "The art of computer science is the art. The business of computer science is the business."

Sorry that I was not clear on my initial premise. Thanks for several people above adding the detail I didn't. Here are some examples of Kickstarters that seem to be in serious trouble. These are terrain KS that produced a physical product and overfunded substantially

link

link

link

Here is a Steampunk Role Playing game that has run into a lot of issues as well link It appears that the company CEO was forced to resign over the KS campaign

Two of those are not even designing stuff, they are using Hirst Arts as masters. That's incredible.

Which two used Hirst Arts?

A well supported crowdfunder that gives away lots of extras for meeting stretch goals could be disastrous if the company hasn't got its costs worked out properly. I would question whether some have planned for 'success' adequately.

the second two

Stretch goals and add ons can kill a Kickstarter program. They seem to transform the KS from a venture capital funding to a source of discount figures and deals model.

It seems like a lot of consumers look at KS as a preorder/discount program rather than a way to help a company get a new project launched.

When I did my first Kickstarter link

A number of people commented that they didn't see a big discount in the prices. With a printed product the margin is pretty tight. But I think those comments show what has become an expectation for a lot of people.

If you are waiting for things from Itar's Workshop here is a note off their website:

"October 13th, 2014

Due to ongoing family health issues Itar's Workshop web store will be closing November 30th, 2014. As disappointing as this news is I feel that it is the only thing I can do under the circumstances. The long term prognosis is good so hopefully at some point in the future I will be able to reopen the web store."

As for that last one, they made some many options and choices the logistics of filling orders for all the possible combinations probably drove the guy crazy. I'm sure he had good intent but offering that many options out of the gate was a bad business decision.

As a note to the Itars one, as I'm a backer. While the web shop has closed, he hasn't stopped with Kickstarter updates (about one ever two weeks), and you can login to a bit of his website and see where you are in the queue. It's is moving very slowly, but is still moving.

I am in the Itars one as well as the Adventure Terrain one. Both have recent updates although Itars is doing far better with that then AT is

The 'too many pledge options' is another killer. I've seen projects with unlimited ala cart options, 20 different level of pledges, 50 different add-ons, or some combination of these ideas. Then when it comes time for fulfillment it takes the company twice as long as you'd expect to get everyone to lock in their pledges, three times as long to actually produce everything, and four times as long to ship everything out….

-Will

Looking at these KS projects (and knowing one of the principals) I'm pretty sure these were all envisioned as "I'll get thirty orders and do the work in my garage after work and on weekends" projects.

Then they got 10-20 x those expected numbers. "I have 600 orders, all due in three months. 200 of them painted. Only one for the really cool light-up statue that I haven't even figured out how to make, but have to since 'Steve from Omaha' ordered it. Damn."

Many of the 'little extras' seem ill-advised. Itar, in particular seems to have offered to paint a lot of staircases, doors etc free of charge.

Suggesting that businesses of this level (and I have one myself) can add considerable infrastructure, or hire workers, isn't very realistic. "I have hired fifteen skilled painters to work on our kitchen table every night between 7-10PM. Is that okay, honey?"

Jack
I can see that. I was pretty careful not to put too many things I would have to make by hand in my KS. I still ended up spending a lot of time hand casting things and such.

In these cases its a darned shame that it played out this way. I have also dealt with one of these principals and am sorry to see that this became such a nightmare for him.

Terry

Many KS (and some hobby retails) are "one man shops" and "not quitting my day job". These KS projects are usually second to family issues and the creator often has a regular job in addition to the KS project. And, with HA molds, you can still have problems with the resin, which cannot be recycled.

I don't see these as bad business decisions, but I do see them as risks. At least for US, I think you might as well just stick to Dwarven Forge's KS.

I think it is OK to be slow, but it is important to communicate. I am (was) a backer in the Adventure Terrain KS, and communication has been hopeless.

I think it is as MJS has described and the process just gets away from the KS owner.

It was interesting to read the comments and updates on the other 2 KS, much better communication then AT.

It is funny as many of us on the AT KS offered to take alternate non painted stuff but the KS owner has refused to engage in any communication with those backers. So some when then get overwhelmed refuse to even take offers of help.

John