HistoryPhD | 29 Dec 2014 9:12 p.m. PST |
I'm doing my first 1808 Spanish regiment and I've come to the question of how many standards for each battalion. In this thread: TMP link some say one and some say two. Is there a more definitive answer? |
Brian Smaller | 29 Dec 2014 9:57 p.m. PST |
I went with what looked cool rather than historical. Just the way I roll. I went with two with each of my 1808 Spanish battalions. |
plutarch 64 | 29 Dec 2014 10:00 p.m. PST |
I modelled my 28mm army with the Coronela carried by the first, and the Ordenanza (the red diagonal Burgundian cross) carried by the second battalion of the same regiment. Where I could only find evidence of one battalion in the regiment (or, more correctly, couldn't find evidence of a second), I gave that battalion both which, as Brian says, looks far nicer anyway. |
gamershs | 29 Dec 2014 11:10 p.m. PST |
As strange as it may sound the Spanish army reorganized it's regiments so that there was one battalion per regiment. In this way more regiments meant more command positions could be created. |
plutarch 64 | 30 Dec 2014 12:59 a.m. PST |
I used the Oman order of battle for Talavera for my Spanish army, which gives a nice breakdown of those regiments present with more than one battalion, as well as those units represented only by the second or third battalion of their regiments (some, such as the Cantabria regiment, actually had three battalions present). |
Quiles | 30 Dec 2014 4:36 a.m. PST |
Only one flag per battalion guys. First battalion: royal arms (Coronela) Second and third battalions: burgundian cross (Batallona) As the war dragged on, the design of the flags could vary slightly, especially in militia units, but the number of flags per battalion remained. Hope that helps. Regards! |
HistoryPhD | 30 Dec 2014 7:35 a.m. PST |
Well, as I'm doing this in 3 mm, I'll go with one per battalion as it's kind of a pain to make them so small |
Marc the plastics fan | 02 Jan 2015 8:28 a.m. PST |
Cool – my bro linked me to this – clearly the fates are saying I need to do Spanish this year. Well, I need a resolution or two |
Whirlwind | 02 Jan 2015 12:07 p.m. PST |
@Quiles, What happened when there was only a single battalion left of a given regiment? |
Teodoro Reding | 06 Jan 2015 6:17 a.m. PST |
Definitely only one standard per battalion. Our confusion comes from the first Osprey book in the 70s on the Spanish Army from Otto von Pivka (a pseudonym) – who said two. (My first Spanish divisionhas two per battalion as a result!). I seem to remember that they had had two in the earlier 18th century but then switched to one. All sources agree on one per battalion exactly as Quiles says. Exception: the Guards. They had a flag for each of the 4 companies in the battalion, the first being rather odd, extremely huge and impossible to paint, the other three (sencillas) being more like the coronelas of the line regiments (logical I suppose), but with the central coat of arms supported y massive lions in gold. When they got down to one battalion, regiments kept the coronela. However: - some volunteer regiments in at least Asturias adopted from the start the sencilla flag deposited in the local provincial cathedral by the provincial militia regiment when it reduced to one flag (coronela) in mid 18th c. - some regiments combined the coronela and sencilla designs in one new flag. Examples are documented for the Princesa Regt and for the Cangas de Tineo Regt. Hope that helps. |
summerfield | 06 Jan 2015 8:23 a.m. PST |
Only one flag per battalion was in use. The Coronella for the 1st Bn and the Regimental flag for the second. There was by about 1812, the issue of the combined Coronella and Regimental flag design. Now this was only for the LIne and Militia regiments. The design for the newly raised regiments either had designs like those of the regulars or often with partiotic slogans or the arms of the town. Most of the regular infantry flags and examples of the Militia flags have been reproduced in Cronin and Summerfield (2013) Spanish Infantry of the Early Peninsular Wars, Ken Trotman Publishing. Volume 2 on the Cavalry, Guard and Artillery has been delayed was expected to be published for April 2015 but has been delayed. Please ask my esteemed co-author. Stephen |
plutarch 64 | 07 Jan 2015 1:41 p.m. PST |
The above makes sense, but what would those regiments which had been reduced to one battalion do with the Sencilla (especially where this had occurred as the result of the last two remaining battalions having been merged)? Would they just leave it behind, or continue to carry it alongside the Coronela in the one remaining battalion (prior to 1812 and any merged design)? |
Teodoro Reding | 10 Jan 2015 3:01 a.m. PST |
That, Plutarch, is a very good question. I would imagine they would either: a) have done what they had done the previous time (when reducing to one flag per battalion): deposit it in the cathedral or b) carried it along with the coronela |
Whirlwind | 11 Jan 2015 10:12 a.m. PST |
@Plutarch & Teodoro R, That is what I do with my Spanish infantry: the vast majority carry one flag, a very occasional unit (never in the white uniform or 1812 uniform) carries two. |