"US divisional cavalry squadron TO&E in late 1980s" Topic

I'm trying to figure out the TO&E for the US divisional cavalry squadron in the late 1980s, when Abrams and Bradley CFVs are starting to become common. I am not talking about the squadron structure in the independent Armoured Cav Regiments.

Somehow I have the impression that they use 6 Bradley CFVs per platoon with 3 platoons (plus HQ) to a troop.

IIRC, the troop had 2 platoons of 6 M3s each and 2 platoons of 4 M1s each.

I thought that is for the ACRs. In FFT3 rules it lists a divisional cav sq to have 2 troops of 4 M3 stands plus a helo coy of 2 attack and 1 scout helo. That translates to about 16-20 M3s per troop. But I want actual numbers, not something translated for a specific game system.

I don't think pure M3 troops is correct. I know the 1st and 2d ID divisional squadrons had organic tanks. The Armor Center pushed hard to make sure the ground troops were organized the same for both divisional and regimental squadrons. Will try to find which box my references are in tonight.

Two ground troops (A & B) each with 2 platoons of 6 M3 CFV, 2 platoons of 4 M1 Abrams, 2 M106 SP 4.2 Mortar tracks and an additional M3 CFV and M1 Abrams in the troop HQ. 2 air troops (C & D) each with 6 OH-58 Kiowas and 4 AH-1 Cobras.

The Squadron HQ had an additional 2 CFV.

At least in the mech infantry and armored divisions which were considered heavy divisions. The light infantry, airborne and airmobile divisions were different. I believe they had different versions of Humvees armed with TOW launchers, AGL and 50 cal MG but I don't remember the mix.

Early 90's, 3/4 Cav 3ID Schweinfurt had mixed plt of Bradleys and Abrams.I think it was 3 tanks/ 4 Bradleys in a plt.

Switched to ACR TOE of two tank plts 4 tanks each and two scout plts six Bradleys, HQ 1 Tank CO, 1 Bradley XO, 1 M113 1st Sgt. plus Mortor Section and Mechanics M113 and M88?=Cav Troop.

This is after the 11ACR was shut down.

Division Cav units could be attached as plt to other battalions as recon assets. I've seen organizations were it is a pure Bradley troop.

2 air troops (C & D) each with 6 OH-58 Kiowas and 4 AH-1 Cobras.

Would the Cobras be replaced by Apaches in the 86-88 time frame?

At that time, Apaches would have started replacing Cobras in the Attack Battalions but as far as I know, the Cav Squadrons kept Cobras until after the first Gulf War. The Air Cav transitioned to OH-58D Kiowa Warriors after that. I don't think Apaches were ever used by Divisional Cav Squadrons.

Look at the NATO OB for 1989 on the Micro Armor Mayhem site, page 51 has the divisional cavalry listing. Some divisions are all M-3, others use some variation of the regimental cavalry troop.
microarmormayhem.com

The following link may help:
PDF link

There was a major reorg in 1986, so you can try searching for divisional org structures with that date.

I've run across some, but my real interest is a bit earlier.

From that PDF, the following quote is interesting, relating to the 1986 Heavy Division structure:

"Meanwhile, a study of the heavy division cavalry squadron was begun in 1985 by the Armor
School, which completed it in May 1986. Major recommendations were to expand the squadron's
mission to include the traditional guard mission and to develop an organization of 2 air cavalry
troops and 3 ground troops, the latter troops each to command two M3 Bradley platoons and two
M I tank platoons. The proposals were widely briefed and were strongly supported by Army corps,
division, and squadron commanders, but some senior commanders disagreed about the guard
function. In October 1986, General Wickham determined the suggested organization with its third
ground troop to be unaffordable. Thus, the Division 86 squadron design of 2 air cavalry troops and
2 ground troops of three M3 platoons only, and no tanks, would continue under the AOE. The
heavy division cavalry squadron TOE was implemented in October 1986. At the close of the
decade, however, five of the six mechanized infantry divisions and one armored division still
retained the pre-Division 86 division cavalry squadrons with M60A I tanks and Mll3 armored
personnel carriers, rather than the new, and "tankJess," Bradley fighting vehicle system coofiguration.34".

I was surprised to read that a number of cav units retained the old M-60 and M-113 structure, from the 1970s.

The info above is from page 94 of the PDF, and there is more info related to it on page 95 as well.

It appears the TO&E varied by heavy division. No surprise there. Like I said, the 2ID cav squadron had mixed tank/scout troops in 1984-86, after converting to the Division 86 TO&E. We had M60A3s and the M113s at the time, so the organization may have changed with delivery of the M3s a few years later.

BTW, conversion to Division 86 occurred prior to 1986. Some units converted as early as 82. FY86 was the target completion date, thus the name. The debate over organization of the cav troops was going on strong, sometimes rather heatedly, at Ft Knox in 82.

Thanks for the clarification of the '86 Div. start and end date info, Cold Steel. I wasn't aware of that.

Surprising to see that at the height of the Cold War, when invasion/attack was expected any day, that we couldn't afford to provide tanks to some units.

Seems to me they could have given them some of those surplus M-48s, or early M-60s, if they really needed to.

The issue wasn't could we afford the tanks, but who would control them. It basically boiled down to the 100 year old argument of do we concentrate the tanks or parcel them out. Keep them concentrated in the maneuver brigades to deliver powerful punches and counter punches or let the cav disperse them in economy of force operations.

Tangential to the debate was the role of the division cav squadrons. Was their role reconnaissance, in which case they didn't need tanks, or were the squadrons combined arms maneuver elements, in which case they did need tanks.

There was never any question of the cav regiments needing tanks. Prior to Div 86, the divisions behind them were tasked with attaching tank companies and battalions to the regiments in the corps covering forces. With Div 86, the ACRs got their own tanks instead of weakening the maneuver brigades.

This document, starting on page 220 is helpful: link

And this seems to jive on the platoon level: link

Pages 221 and 222 provide very useful info on the rollout of the new equipment as well.