"Panzer IIIL Smoke Grenades, or no Smoke Grenades?" Topic
11 Posts
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Tgerritsen | 19 Dec 2014 9:14 a.m. PST |
I have the PSC 15mm Panzer IIIs that I'm currently building so I can game game 1942/Case Blue. I've seen pictures with the smoke launchers on them and without. The instructions in the box state to use the launchers only on the Panzer III FL, but not on any other variant. I've seen photos of the Panzer IIIL with smoke launchers, though, so the question is- do I include them or not?
Also, I don't see many rules sets that even use smoke launchers in their rules. Why is that? |
Garand | 19 Dec 2014 10:42 a.m. PST |
I want to say smoke grenade launchers were a feature of 1943, so if you're doing '42 I think you can safely leave them off. Damon. |
Disco Joe | 19 Dec 2014 11:17 a.m. PST |
Pardon me for asking but what is a Panzer III FL as you have listed? |
haywire | 19 Dec 2014 11:34 a.m. PST |
FL = the flamethrower version |
Disco Joe | 19 Dec 2014 1:18 p.m. PST |
Thank you but I thought the flamethrower version was always listed as an F1 and not an FL. |
Tgerritsen | 19 Dec 2014 1:58 p.m. PST |
In the PSC documentation, they list it as an FL, and in several other places I have seen it listed that way- it is probably a typo, but I am going off the instruction sheet for the PSC models in this context. |
Disco Joe | 19 Dec 2014 2:02 p.m. PST |
So apparently they made a mistake. |
nazrat | 19 Dec 2014 4:10 p.m. PST |
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enfant perdus | 19 Dec 2014 4:28 p.m. PST |
No, it's "Fl" not "F1". The "Fl" is an abbreviation for "Flammpanzer". Unfortunately, the confusion has persisted for long enough that many sources list it as "F1". |
Disco Joe | 19 Dec 2014 4:35 p.m. PST |
Are you sure about that because all the sources I have seen list it as F1. So might I inquire what source you are using that list it as Fl? |
enfant perdus | 19 Dec 2014 7:39 p.m. PST |
Quite certain. Panzer nomenclature was a well defined thing. For production vehicles, the main type (e.g., III, IV) was followed by the Ausführung, denoted by a capital letter and very rarely a number*. Anything in parentheses indicated either a special modification or usage or foreign origin** and contained no numbers. The PzKpfw.III Ausf.M was the basis for the "Flammpanzer III". The PzKpfw.III Ausf.F was a markedly different vehicle. For a commonly accessible reference, you can look at Chamberlain and Doyle's "Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War 2". Online, try link *The only real usage being the PzKpfw.IV Ausf.F1 and Ausf.F2. The numbers should be in subscript, strictly speaking. There were also Ausf.G1, G3 and G4 of the PzKpfw.II, totaling a dozen vehicles across the subtypes. ** Some examples: (Fl) for Flammpanzer, originally (F) for the PzKpfw.II Ausf. D & E variant. (i) "italienisch" for impressed Italian vehicles (f) "französsich for impressed French vehicles (t) "tschechoslowakisch" for impressed Czech vehicles (U) for unterwasser, or submersible tanks. Although known as Tauchpanzer, "T" was already taken. |
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