"Hundreds of US troops now deployed in Iraq’s Anbar province" Topic

"Hundreds of American troops are now in Iraq's volatile Anbar province helping the Iraqi military take on the Islamic State, Joint Chiefs of Staff officials said.

Currently, about 350 U.S. troops are stationed at Al Asad Air Base in Anbar. The force is composed of advisers and support personnel who are assisting the Iraqi army, as well as a security contingent tasked with providing force protection

The troops on the ground are helping the 7th Iraqi Division with developing security strategies, mission planning, information sharing, and coordinating close air support operations…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

Yep … only way to get them to call-in CAS directly …

Why did we leave in the first place when all our military experts told the politicians what would happen if we withdrew and that we would have to go back to Iraq? War is too important to be left to the politicians…

War is supposed to be in the hands of the elected representatives of "we the people", not given up to the military "elite". That politicians screw it up is the hazard we must accept in order to retain control of our armed forces.

So, if "we" must go back, let's get it done the American way: "firstest with the mostest" and finish it up right….

The decision whether to fight is the one that must always be left in the hands of "we the people".

The decision of how to fight is one that needs to be left to the professionals.

Do you tell a fireman how to put out your burning house? Do you tell the exterminator how and where to put the traps and insecticides? Do you tell the plumber or electrician exactly what tools, pipes and wires to use?

No, you let the professionals decide how to accomplish the task you set out for them to do.

The way the decision-making process is supposed to work is that the POTUS tells the Generals, "This is what I want to accomplish: I want DAESH destroyed."

The Generals reply, "We would need to send troops back in to guarantee that, sir."

POTUS: "I don't want to send the army back in, the American people are tired of war."

Generals: "Very well, sir, in that case we need to put forward air controllers on the ground, directly attached to Iraqi Army units."

POTUS: "No, I don't want ANY boots on the ground."

Generals: "You're not going to get as good a result, and it's going to take a lot longer to get that result if you do that, sir. If you want this done well and done quickly, we need to put forward air controllers on the ground and in the field, not in Iraqi Army headquarters. This isn't a negotiable item, Mister President."

And what should have happened here is that the POTUS would say, "I want it finished, not halfassed. Make it happen."

Unfortunately, what happened in this case is that the POTUS said, "I don't care. There will be no American boots in the field, period."

Which has led us to the point we're at.

War is supposed to be in the hands of the elected representatives of "we the people", not given up to the military "elite". That politicians screw it up is the hazard we must accept in order to retain control of our armed forces.

So, if "we" must go back, let's get it done the American way: "firstest with the mostest" and finish it up right….

As Lion said. And Ace has a paranoid fantasy about the US military elite taking over the US Gov't. And no, POTUS's Military advisors won't let his screw up and waste our lives. The hazard is people like you believing since we volunteer to fight and die for civilains that are not capable, trained, or brave enough to go in harms way for one's country. We can be wasted … Your paranoia is absolutely frightening, that some one would willfully waste highly trained brave voluteers lives. Because of fear of being overthrown. Sounds more like some South American dictator or even Communist leader like Stalin. I'm very sure that was not what Washington, Jefferson, etc. envisioned. That is what makes us different that many nations … Your comments are again insulting and literally down right UN-American … Every life is important even those of the soldier in the front lines … I'm amazed any American would think the way you do.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

The job of politicians and diplomats is to resolve national differences via negotiation and diplomatic means. So, if they can't do their job that they're supposed to do and decide to resort to military means, then they had better allow the military do what they do best, and fight by all means necessary and not "half-ass" it, as seems to be the norm in Korea, Vietnam, Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan. Gen. Schwarzkopf has been the only military man since Patton that wasn't incompetent, a psycho, or warmonger. He understood that if you are going to wage war, then, hit them with the biggest hammer you got or don't do it at all and waste lives as we have in the wars mentioned above. I worked for Donald Rumsfeld in the private sector in the early to mid eighties and had great respect for the man based on his performance the Cambodian Hostage Crises as Secretary of Defense under Gerald Ford. He performed decisively, aggressively and with total confidence. The mission was successful and gained immediate respect throughout the world, especially our enemies.

So, being in the Army for the last 23 years, when he took the reigns again as Secretary of Defense at the outset of Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom, I was confident things were going to go well as I was preparing for my Military Deployment. The war started before I was in-processed as a Reservist into Active status in preparation for going to war as part of the Special Operations community, as a PSYOP Specialist and BN Intel Analyst running our battalions S-2 Intelligence Section. I was watching the dramatic kickoff of the war on television as all of you had, and immediately saw very disturbing events in the conduct of the war's planning and execution right from the get go. I won't waste time going into detail of all that here . . .

Anyway, I immediately identified, all correctly by the way, of every gross mistake taking place on the ground in our war effort and recognized all the mistakes and judgment errors being done at the behest of Defense Secretary Rumsfeld long before it became obvious or common knowledge – even to those in charge! Knowing his management style in the corporate world, I realized that he was conducting this war, not as a warfighter, but as a businessman. He was a very good business man but this does not apply to war. This was the big disconnect. He was being a politician and not a soldier and was trying to fight the war on a budget bottomline. What a disaster. He failed us all miserably and surprised me with his lack of comprehension of what was required to win this war in the Middle East, if it was to be winnable at all – and, that's a big question, under even the best conditions!!! It was clear to me that there was no "master plan" or an "exit strategy" in place. Wars cannot be fought that way – they are not a corporation. War needs to be fought with the maximum pressure and with extreme prejudice.

Like Schwarzkopf – hit them with the biggest hammer, and as fast as possible – don't try to parse the actions and get all political with it. It's always the politicians who screw up the wars, first by starting them, then by never letting the warriors finish the job to victory in the style that it needs to be done. It's an overused statement but it's totally true. Not only does the failure to learn histories lessons doom us to repeat them, but the cost of failure goes up each time!

Let me say, that every damned failure, and there are so many of them it's staggering, regarding the current war in Iraq and Afghanistan, that I not only predicted, but have never failed in my intelligence analysis yet, to this day, that it's maddening !!!
Sacrificing soldiers lives piecemeal for the benefits of the fat cats and their manipulative politicians angling is disgusting and morally wrong. Not that they care. And, I can tell you the military is NOT the one to fear, in fact down the road they will be undoubtedly be divided but many if not most, of those will be on the side of the real America, and it's citizens. It is the politicians at the highest levels of government that we need to fear more than ever. If we are to be paranoid, then we need to focus and be "paranoid" about them. The ridiculous fear that we must keep our Military in check from chomping at the bits to conduct an imminent Coup d'Etat, is ludicrous, stupid Liberal, socialist bent kind of thinking. All I have to say to that is, it isn't that Liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."

Our founding fathers were very astute when they crafted the 2nd Amendment to the Bill of Rights, where they state that the right to bear arms is to protect the citizenry from enemies foreign and domestic, with heavy emphasis on the domestic. It was SO important and in the forefront of their thinking that it was only 2nd to the right to free speech – think about that!!! If you have any doubts about what the founding fathers meant by their words, and they were true visionaries, by even today's standards, then read the Federalist Papers, and you will see what they meant, in detail, in those vital documents: the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights – which should be required reading in all our overly-liberal, down-dumbing, no-competition, so little "Johnny" doesn't feel inadequate, school systems. Give me a friggin' break!

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
- Thomas Jefferson (1743 – 1826)

It must be remembered that the Government is there to SERVE and obey the people, not that the People serve the whims of Government. We do not, nor ever should accept the hazards that politicians foist on it's constituency. I guarantee that if the Military would actually "overthrow the government" it would be because it richly deserves it . . . and, it would be at the behest of a ed off citizenry, to be sure!!!

Jefferson said that our Republic had a life expectancy of about 200 years, and I'd say he's pretty much nailed that! The government in Washington is imploding and currently is so corrupt, inefficient, and incompetent and out of touch with it's citizens real needs, that we can't even point and laugh at Banana Republics anymore without comparing ourselves as having become equally as bad.

Unfortunately, our government has evolved into a state of "Ineptocracy"! A system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

With all these government agencies spying on us it's worse than George Orwell's 1984!!! It's Washington we must control, they ARE the hazard not the military . . . please!!! Who the hell are they working for anyway?!? Don't get me started!!!

"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty." – Thomas Jefferson

He also very correctly stated . . . "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." I think we've reached that point and it's undermining our way of life!!!

Ronald Reagan had this to say, and you can take this to the bank – "The ten most dangerous words in the English language are:
‘Hi, I'm from the government, and I'm here to help.'"

Well, I think you get my point. Talking from not only the outside of the military as a working citizen, but from the inside, the Military may be our only best hope in the near future when the hits the fan . . . and, it will. Unfortunately, I'm afraid I will live to see that day and dread it. Remember I'm in the secret squirrel business of predicting things . . .

The job of politicians and diplomats is to resolve national differences via negotiation and diplomatic means. So, if they can't do their job that they're supposed to do and decide to resort to military means, then they had better allow the military do what they do best, and fight by all means necessary

That is the way I see it … Thank you …

With all these government agencies spying on us it's worse than George Orwell's 1984!!! It's Washington we must control, they ARE the hazard not the military . . . please!!! Who the hell are they working for anyway?!? Don't get me started!!!

the Military may be our only best hope in the near future when the hits the fan

Sacrificing soldiers lives piecemeal for the benefits of the fat cats and their manipulative politicians angling is disgusting and morally wrong. Not that they care. And, I can tell you the military is NOT the one to fear, in fact down the road they will be undoubtedly be divided but many if not most, of those will be on the side of the real America, and it's citizens. It is the politicians at the highest levels of government that we need to fear more than ever. If we are to be paranoid, then we need to focus and be "paranoid" about them. The ridiculous fear that we must keep our Military in check from chomping at the bits to conduct an imminent Coup d'Etat, is ludicrous, stupid Liberal, socialist bent kind of thinking. All I have to say to that is, it isn't that Liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."

You said it all much better than I have … Thank you again Brother …

We had a similar lively discussion on this thread also that some how devolved TMP link Scroll down to observe the downward spin. I think I made some upset and angry with me … < hangs head in shame >

"All I have to say to that is, it isn't that Liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."

Your post is a little confusing, in that you criticise Rumsfeld for having screwed up OIF (I agree), then go on to blame liberals and government.

You criticise "government agencies spying on us", then say "the Military may be our only best hope".

Our government is the exact product you get, based on the representatives you elect to Congress. If you don't like it, change the way you vote.

I think you're listening to too much talk radio.

"Why did we leave in the first place when all our military experts told the politicians what would happen if we withdrew"

We withdrew because Maliki refused to sign any SOFA that didn't include provisions for Iraq retaining legal souvereignty over U.S. troops. For G.W. Bush, that was a deal-breaker. I think he was right. For Barack Obama, that was a deal-breaker, too. Would you really have wanted to serve in the U.S. military in Iraq, knowing that Iraqi police could arrest you and throw you in jail any time they thought you had commited a crime?

I'm going to point out (again) that NO NATION holds a Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) that gives the host nation primary jurisdiction.

Not the UK, not Aus, not France, not Germany, NOBODY.

No other nation would have accepted such a SOFA.

Not the UK, not Aus, not France, not Germany, NOBODY.

So al Maliki got exactly what he asked for. No nation willing to protect him, and no-one in his nation willing to stand up and fight.

Our government is the exact product you get, based on the representatives you elect to Congress. If you don't like it, change the way you vote.

We have to be careful here, I've been DH'd for saying similar. However, we all know the way democracy works, not everybody you vote for gets elected. Frankly when it comes to POTUS, I like the original system our Founding Fathers came up with. The guy running who gets the second most number of votes is the VP. Wow, could you see that in today's politcal system !?

Tuscaloosa i appreciate your opinion, however I'm not confused at all. That's why I've predicted every change, presendetial election, or major terrosit event in these United States because I have informed myself in all ways possible. Yes I criticize what is clearly wrong. I'm am neither a Republican, which you may mistake me for, nor am I a Democrat. Some have described me as a Libertarian, but that doesn't fit me either. The best I can describe my views are in the context of a "Constituionalist". So, I see the rights and wrongs on both sides of the political fence.

I listen and read everything from the extreme left to the extreme right and all in between and sort out the propaganda from the truth. Yes, if you like, you can call me a "Conspiracy Theorist", but what do you have a "Coincindence Theory"?!? Nothing happens without a reason, NOTHING!!! Yes, some of what talk radio, et al, have nuggets of truth and accuracy, but in my opiniion 80% of the "Conspiracy Theories" are clap-trap and sensationalist hysteria. On the other hand, there IS Agendas at play . . . but, that is a discussion outside of this platform. I coulod tell you things that would have your hair standing on end!!!! I predicted or better stated, discovered much of what we take for granted today, like the NSA monitoring your phone calls, screening your emails, etc., etc. is common knowledge TODAY – even the controlled mass media confirms it. It was telling people about this and much more back in 1992 and people were looking at me like I had two heads!!! All that was correct and spot on. I kid you not.

I started on this path of discovery way back in 1991. I was trying to disprove my very good friend who was telling me things like this, that I refused to believe and said much stronger things than you !!! However, his statements of how things are and what was to be would come true and be revealed in the media a year or so later. I was amazed and angry and tried to prove him wrong. The curious thing was the more I tried to do so, the more it became apparent I couldn't and that he had hit on something. I urge disbeliever's to not take my word for it but start doing your own research and see for yourself. One of my key tricks to finding the truth is, that take to polar opposite groups who mudsling accusations at each other – most of that stuff can be discounted as propaganda. What you need to pay attention to is what the opposing groups agree on and that will be a nucleus of truth, more often than not. It helps to have a good sound knowledge of history and cultural norms to focus your discretionary investigations. i call it having a good bull meter! Not every one can do this. That's what makes the difference between a good intel analyst vs a mediocre one.

That's all I'm saying open your eyes and open your mind and be as objective as you possibly can – that is the only way.

One final lesson, afte all that. One thing I learned from being a PSYOP Specialist is this, it doesn't really matter WHAT the truth is but what is the PERCEPTION of what is the truth, because that becomes the truth in people's eyes. If you can make that distinction then you will understand much better what is going on in this world behind closed doors.

Sorry, this is heavy stuff, but I'm putting it out there as you are all very intelligent and historically savvy people on these threads – and, I sense some understanding what I'm talking about here. I'm not directing this at you Tuscaloosa in a malicious way, but more in a heeding way, if that makes any sense . . . don't be so quick to discount these machinations. They are real, and I have seen some first hand.

I'll shut up now.

Tibor

Sorry, I didn't proofread my last thread – spelling errors and some grammatical – was typing fast!!!

I wonder where people get the impression that this forum is for the discussion and dissemination of right-wing politics and not actually gaming with miniature soldiers?

I don't know, but since it had already gone that way, before I stumbled across it – I decided to chime in. Besides I like creating a storm and see where it'll go.

I make a lot of typos too sf12 also …

I wonder where people get the impression that this forum is for the discussion and dissemination of right-wing politics and not actually gaming with miniature soldiers?

Or left-wing, middle of road, lunatic fringe, etc. ? Again it's a matter of preception … and in many cases along with predilections … And if I may …

War is the continuation of politics by other means.

Carl von Clausewitz

Fine, I'll bite.

Show me a present-day rules set that incorporates into the rules how evil liberals are ruining the military.

I think it has something to do with rules for Zombie attacks.

Show me a present-day rules set that incorporates into the rules how evil liberals are ruining the military.

Ambush Alley's Positive ID rules?

Any set with extremely strict ROEs?

Any set where artillery and/or air support has been banned?

Infinity, where about 2/3rds of the weapons listed have a note in their descriptions: "ATTENTION: Use of this weapon is prohibited by the Concilium Convention. Violators shall be prosecuted by international courts"? Oh, and among the troops armed with conventions-violating weapons are the very troops charged with enforcing said Conventions.

Show me a present-day rules set that incorporates into the rules how evil liberals are ruining the military.

I don't think any game rules go into those types of things … But Lion's comments sounds like they could be good rules for such "evil liberals" …

Evil liberals?

Is there any other kind?
Apparently not!

LOL !!!! Don't forget "evil middle of the roaders" and of course the ever popular "evil lunatic fringers" !!!!!! Of course in places like Iraq, Pakistan, A'stan, etc., you can't swing a dead islamic jihadi terrorist without hitting a Lunatic Fringer ! Or two !

If both sides were shooting the civvies, how can we tell which one is the heroes?

The goodies shoot evil foreign terrorists who use the civilian population to hide behind and the baddies shoot brave freedom fighters that the civilian population stands in front of.

Duh!

Anyway, Iraq, how's it going with those WMDs? Any news yet?

Again, it's all about preceptions, preferences and predilections … The saying goes, "One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist" …

how can we tell which one is the heroes?

No heroes, just a lot of people trying to stay alive and at the same time shooting at people who are shooting at them …

WMDs? Any news yet?

If the Iraqis had WMDs, based on their recent combat prowess … they'd just leave them and run away …

Someone has to do it: the word is perceptions.

Anyway, Iraq, how's it going with those WMDs? Any news yet?

Lots and lots of chemicals and precursors, maybe a few germs (I don't remember), none that go boom.

And somehow finding massive stores of chemicals (which were supposed to have all been destroyed after 1991, mind you), never made the major American news channels.

Someone has to do it: the word is perceptions.

Oops ! Sorry, I transposed a letter again ! I'll go to the penalty box and hang my head in shame … I didn't know there was going to be a spelling quiz …

Or perhaps you intended preconceptions; in which case it's an error of omission, rather than transposition.

specforc12 wrote:

Ronald Reagan had this to say, and you can take this to the bank – "The ten most dangerous words in the English language are:
‘Hi, I'm from the government, and I'm here to help.'"

Much more dangerous is:

'Hi, I'm from the military, and we're your new government.'

Or perhaps you intended preconceptions; in which case it's an error of omission, rather than transposition.

Nah … I meant PERCEPTIONS … but preconceptions might work too. So now today's lesson goes from spelling to semantics … Or we could even go to the, "Don't put words in my mouth !" response ?

perception
[ pərˈsepSHən ]
NOUN
noun: perception · plural noun: perceptions
the ability to see, hear, or become aware of something through the senses:
"the normal limits to human perception"

preconception
[ ˌprçkənˈsepSHən ]
NOUN
plural noun: preconceptions
a preconceived idea or prejudice.
synonyms: preconceived idea/notion · presupposition · assumption

So I even could have posted >

Again, it's all about perceptions, preferences, predilections and preconceptions … The saying goes, "One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist" …

Much more dangerous is:

'Hi, I'm from the military, and we're your new government.'

You would Not hear that in the US or most of the West. Now maybe in Central or South America, Cuba or even Russia, plus some African, Middle East, North Korea and/or SW Asian countries … But … wait for it … Again, it's all about perceptions, preferences, predilections and preconceptions …

Weeeeel, just to be contrary, it's not that long ago since you could hear those words in Spain and Portugal. Greece and Turkey are they "the west"? But yeah, I d agree not the US, at least not in a gold braid and raybans, el presidente sort of way.
But in a Haliburtonny, military/industrial complex sort of way it's probably already happened. I'm having trouble thinking of another reason for the US and its hangers on to have gone blundering round the world the way they've been doing.

They say you can tell a man's priorities by what he spends his money on.

Yeah … it wasn't so long ago, for some in the West, but things change … But I did say most of the West, regardless …

Haliburtonny, military/industrial complex sort of way it's probably already happened. I'm having trouble thinking of another reason for the US and its hangers on to have gone blundering round the world the way they've been doing.

No Bucks … No Buck Rogers … It's all about the bottomline …

They say you can tell a man's priorities by what he spends his money on.

Hmmm ? I buy 6mm Sci-fi toy soldiers and aliens …

Legion4 wrote

Much more dangerous is:

'Hi, I'm from the military, and we're your new government.'

You would Not hear that in the US or most of the West.

Funny but that's exactly what I thought specforc12 was saying -

I guarantee that if the Military would actually "overthrow the government" it would be because it richly deserves it …
the Military may be our only best hope in the near future when the Bleeped text hits the fan . . . and, it will.

Thank you "Lion in the Stars:"

Show me a present-day rules set that incorporates into the rules how evil liberals are ruining the military.
Ambush Alley's Positive ID rules?
Any set with extremely strict ROEs?
Any set where artillery and/or air support has been banned?

Yes, Force on Force has stuff like that – I like the "out of the box" gaming aspect of that!!! Could be an interesting twist to my game?!?

As far as WMD's goes, as "Lion in the Stars" has said. Yes, we found incredible amounts of WMD's and not the kind that go Boom, type, at least not to my knowledge. However, I've seen it. My buddy, a PMC spent an entire year, every single day, mind you, destroying the stuff. Curious wouldn't you say? You want to know why it was kept Hush-Hush and wasn't used as a pawn to Bush's advantage? Because it was almost all French made!!! Even more curious. Remember how the French were besmerching the US for going to war in Iraq, the war-mongers that we are, well guess what, we were gonna prevent their "cash-cow" of arms sales to Saddam to continue forever, apparently. Guess they didn't like that. But, Bushski had diplomatically antagonized the "European Consortium of Nations" so stupidly, (his father would never have done that) that George JR had to find a way to make "nice-nice" with the Euros and patch up things, because he was going to need them eventually. So, having inserted foot into Texan mouth he had for forgoe the political advantage of revealing the existence of WMD's. Oh well, that's how the cookie crumbles.

As to clarify my point regarding the Military taking over the government we have very specific laws in place to prevent that sort of thing beyond the US Constitution which forbades that kind of thing. We have the Posse Comitatus Act, and the Graham-Rudman bill (I may have the wrong name for that one – my memory fails me at the moment) and there are these things that are there to prevent a military junta from taking over. Hence, enter the 2nd Amendment, comes into play on the behalf of the citizenry should revolution in this nation become necessary, so any military that joins in support, so be it. That's what I'm talking about.

I don't want to say any more than that before I get in trouble . . . and, not by you guys, either.

Correction:

. . . of arms sales to Saddam to NOT continue forever . . .

latto6plus2 – what the heck are you saying – where do you get the impression that statement has any veracity?!?! Are you serious???

"The goodies shoot evil foreign terrorists who use the civilian population to hide behind and the baddies shoot brave freedom fighters that the civilian population stands in front of.
Duh!
Anyway, Iraq, how's it going with those WMDs? Any news yet?"

All I can say, your information is badly skewed, if you only knew the half of it – you wouldn't be saying such inane things!

Nevermind, I don't want to get personal here. That's just such a whacked statement . . . let it pass.

Glad to hear you aren't planning a coup after all specforc12
Merry Christmas

PS I really like the idea a law is going to stop revolutions – if only we'd known you'd still be British!

Good point you Red Coated Rascal !

Gwydion 24 Dec 2014 12:39 p.m. PST
Legion4 wrote

Much more dangerous is:

'Hi, I'm from the military, and we're your new government.'

You would Not hear that in the US or most of the West.

Funny but that's exactly what I thought specforc12 was saying -

I guarantee that if the Military would actually "overthrow the government" it would be because it richly deserves it …
the Military may be our only best hope in the near future when the Bleeped text hits the fan . . . and, it will.

I believe specforc12 means if the gov't became grossly corrupted, totalitarian, etc. … Like … say, the Nazis or Communist Russia, etc. … However as we all know, again, it's all about perceptions, preferences, predilections and preconceptions … The saying goes, "One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist" … I'm sure the Red Coats and Hessians under command of the King, thought something like that about the American colonial rebels. However, as I see it. The US Military does not support tyrants but destroys them … However, I'm pretty sure in the US, the mainstream Dems, GOP, etc. parties are many, many things. But are not trying to turn the US into a totalitarian Orwellain nightmare … Rock the Vote !

Here's the thing – there are very nefarious things afoot behind closed doors that are undermining our society and rule of law as we know it. I would say Legion 4 is quite correct in saying, "the mainstream Dems, GOP, etc. parties are many, many things. But are not trying to turn the US into a totalitarian Orwellian nightmare . . . " However, it is not the "mainstream" politicians, or even the "mainstream" intelligence apparatus employees that are doing the undermining, but rather enclaves of power deep within those organizations that clearly are manuevering us, hurtling us towards a police state, that is ever more in your face every day. The way things are going I'd point out that the "power of the people" is quickly slipping through our fingers like sand. And, laws and bills that have reinforced this momentum, like Clinton's Anti-Terrorism bills (x 2), the Patriot Acts under Bush, and Obama's blatant and indiscriminate use of "Executive Orders" should be alarming people a lot more than it is.

I strongly recommend you nah-sayers to read some very astute and incisive books to give you a clue on what's really going on. "Shadows of Power" by James Perloff. Another is "the Secret Team" by L. Fletcher Prouty, LTC (retired USAF). These books, especially "Shadows of Power" are heavily footnoted, which will surprise you who's been quoted!

Read these 10,000 page bills I mentioned above or portions thereof and you will see what I'm talking about. Civil rights are being run over roughshod and it's pretty scary what's in these bills that they don't want you to know. Don't have to listen to the "shock jocks" do the research and it'll start to be crystal clear where this country is headed. It not only is becoming it already is an Orwellian nightmare.

Probably what is said behind closes doors with the Power Brokers in DC, etc. would seem a bit concerning to many of us. But since I'm not there as a fly on the wall. I'll just have to hope someone has the best interests of people and the nation as a whole … I hope … But until I'm invited to some of those close door meetings … well who knows ?