ccmatty  | 17 Dec 2014 9:09 p.m. PST |
I am hoping someone can recommend a good source for German OOBs in NW Europe/Normandy/Falaise from June through December of 1944. Can be combined OOBs covering Waffen – SS, Wehrmacht, Fallshirmjager and Luftwaffe. Hope this makes sense. Thanks. |
| Martin Rapier | 18 Dec 2014 12:07 a.m. PST |
Zetterling "Normandy 1944" is very comprehensive. Good luck finding definitive OB information for September and October! |
| Jemima Fawr | 18 Dec 2014 3:39 a.m. PST |
:) As Martin said; pick up a copy of Zetterling. It's not 100% perfect (none are), but it's by far the best out there. To refine more fine detail for certain formations, you'll need to pick up divisional histories such as those published by Helion and Heimdal (NB most of the latter's books are in French), Hubert Meyer's history of the 12. SS-Panzer-Division, Kortenhaus' history of the 21. Panzer-Division, etc, etc. To get you started, there are a few German orbats on the Battlefront: WWII (Fire & Fury Games) orbats page: link You can also have a look at the orbats contained within the many historical Normandy scenarios there: link Note that in this system, each infantry stand represents a section/squad and each vehicle/gun represents 2-3 real ones. |
 Mserafin | 18 Dec 2014 9:33 a.m. PST |
This one from the Nafziger collection looks like it might fit the bill (and it's free): PDF link |
| Martin Rapier | 18 Dec 2014 9:54 a.m. PST |
Do you want tables of organisation and equipment or orders of battle? They aren't the same thing. As JF says, you'll need to hunt a round a fair bit for the specifics of certain units at a particular time and for some units at some times we'll just never know as the records don't exist. Errors, gaps and contradictions in the existing records don't help. Some units (like every single Tiger battalion which ever existed) are very well documented though, down to the colours of the turret numbers for particular companies on particular months. Even then, there are arguments about details. At a higher level, entire battalions, regiments, and divisions vanish for months at a time, only to reappear (or not) in some other guise. |
| Rebelyell2006 | 18 Dec 2014 10:07 a.m. PST |
Errors, gaps and contradictions in the existing records don't help. Not to mention manpower and equipment shortages, along with mechanical failures. A panzer division would never have a full complement of tanks, and during a fighting withdrawal weapons would be lost and the KStN's thrown out the window. |
| Mserafin | 18 Dec 2014 10:39 a.m. PST |
There was also a tendency to under-report equipment on hand. This was because units were afraid that if they had a decent amount of something, and another division didn't, their stuff would be transferred over to the other unit. IIRC something like this happened at Arnhem. One of the SS divisions was being packed up to go back to Germany for re-fitting. Its equipment was supposed to be transferred to the other division that was staying in Holland. In at least one unit of the division to be moved, they took the distributor caps out of their 1/2 tracks so they could list them as "inoperable." When the British started landing, they quickly fixed the vehicles and were good to go. So yeah, there's a lot of error in what got reported. |
| Jemima Fawr | 18 Dec 2014 12:46 p.m. PST |
Indeed. One of the artillery batteries of 716. Infanterie-Division (which held Sword, Juno, Gold and half of Omaha Beaches) actually had four SP 150mm on Lorraine chassis, though on paper they had towed guns (the Lorraines were probably picked up surplus from 21. Panzer-Division next door). Had they revealed that fact to OKW, the SPs would probably have been taken away to re-equip a panzer division. Zetterling only goes by the paper returns. |
| Thomas Thomas | 18 Dec 2014 3:21 p.m. PST |
Where can I get a copy of: Kortenhaus' history of the 21. Panzer-Division? I've got Zetterling (as essential starting point). TomT |
| Cornelius | 18 Dec 2014 6:26 p.m. PST |
Kortenhaus was recently published in English. The general quality seems very good (at least on Normandy – the period I am interested in). The English version editing could be better but that does not detract on its unique value as a German point of view with good detail. It is not cheap but I consider it a wise investment. |
| Jemima Fawr | 18 Dec 2014 7:58 p.m. PST |
It's published by Helion. I also recommend Perrigault's history (Heimdal), though that's in French, with only a summary (plus photo captions) in English. |
| ccmatty | 25 Dec 2014 10:26 a.m. PST |
Thank you for all of the help. I am going to try and find these sources. |
snapped some photos of games he didn't get a chance to play in at Council of Five Nations.
