ochoin | 08 Dec 2014 6:50 a.m. PST |
I'm wondering how much equipment the Prussian army at Ligny in 1815 might have used from the copious amounts of French equipment captured in 1813-1814? Specifically, as well as Prussian regulation equipment, would they have used French limbers, caissons even gun carriages? I ask this not least because in 20mm it is hard though not impossible to acquire Prussian equipment whereas French is readily obtainable, particularly in 1/72. As I complete my audit of my Prussian army it would be easier to fill in gaps with spare French gear rather than try to source Prussian. Another question in my attempts to marry history with the practicality of wargaming…. |
Oliver Schmidt | 08 Dec 2014 7:17 a.m. PST |
The problem with guns of foreign origin was that they had a different caliber and needed different ammunition, complicating the ammunition supply. Therefore, captured guns were preferably recast, but this was costly, also because they had to be transported to the foundries. So there were, still in 1815, a handfull of batteries (I haven't got their names at hand) with British guns, two with Russian guns (Reitende Batterie No. 18 and No. 19), and at least one with French guns: 12pfündige Fuß-Batterie No. 19 (formed as late as 1815, and assigned to VI army corps): six French 12pounder guns and two Prussian 10pounder howitzers. I don't know of other batteries at the moment. References to French caissons in use (even if the guns were Prussian), are not unfrequent. But I can't name here any batteries at the moment, either. |
ColCampbell | 08 Dec 2014 8:24 a.m. PST |
The Reitende (Horse) Batterie Nr 18 and 19 were probably the batteries from the old Russo-German Legion which had been raised and equipped by the Russians. I'm at work (sshh!!) and don't have access to my Nash book on the Prussians. Jim |
Jcfrog | 08 Dec 2014 9:27 a.m. PST |
Been told by a Prussian fanatic with sources who reads German: 1813 they overcame the fr depot at Halle and many 2nd-3rd reserve bn had slightly transformed fr uniforms (surtouts). battered or taken off and replaced by Kreuz Fr Skakos or covered. fr muskets fr packs One battery had Saxon uniforms; Those were written notes, totally out of reach for 5D6 months. |
ochoin | 10 Dec 2014 2:53 p.m. PST |
Great. I can fill holes with "captured" French equipment. I'm assuming it'd have had a coat of Prussian-coloured paint over it? They wouldn't have left the wood work in original French colour? |
von Winterfeldt | 10 Dec 2014 3:00 p.m. PST |
" Been told by a Prussian fanatic with sources who reads German: 1813 they overcame the fr depot at Halle and many 2nd-3rd reserve bn had slightly transformed fr uniforms (surtouts). battered or taken off and replaced by Kreuz Fr Skakos or covered. fr muskets fr packs One battery had Saxon uniforms; Those were written notes, totally out of reach for 5D6 months." Is there any source on this other than hearsay? |
tuscaloosa | 10 Dec 2014 3:31 p.m. PST |
I heard they wore pink tutus and firemens' helmets. Look forward to seeing your painted army. |
matthewgreen | 11 Dec 2014 10:45 a.m. PST |
Also you can use one or two British guns and limbers. |
Musketier | 12 Dec 2014 8:45 a.m. PST |
This thread TMP link has a handy list of which batteries had what foreign equipment. As to whether the carriages were repainted or not, I tend towards no, but your guess is as good as mine. |
summerfield | 12 Dec 2014 9:03 a.m. PST |
It is good that I did not have to repeat myself. I would doubt the foreign pieces were repainted. That costs money and Prussia had none. Stephen |
von Winterfeldt | 12 Dec 2014 9:23 a.m. PST |
not only money but time as well, which you usually don't have when on campaign |
matthewgreen | 12 Dec 2014 10:11 a.m. PST |
In 1814/1814 I'm sure that there would not have been repainting. In 1815 there might have been time, though maybe no money. It depends on how often they repainted as a matter of routine maintenance, I guess. |
Musketier | 12 Dec 2014 2:56 p.m. PST |
It's just a hunch mind you, but from a psychological angle, I'd think about the only ones they might want to repaint would have been the British lend-lease pieces, and those were closest in colour to the Prussian scheme anyway. The Russian ones were gifts from a valued ally, plus they set the former Legion artillery apart from the rest – my bet is that somehow, there just would never have been the time, or the right supplies, to change that. French pieces painted blue become almost undistinguishable from Prussian ones, whereas in ochre they're immediately identifiable as "trophies" taken from the enemy. Again, I'm guessing that your average gunner would have been in no hurry to erase that distinction. |