"Greatest Air Battles in Military History" Topic

"Short, frantic and bloody has been the history of aerial warfare. While human beings have killed each other on land and sea for millennia, air combat is but little more than a century old. Yet it quickly caught up with its older siblings. In 1903, the Wright brothers made their historic flight; by 1911, the Italians were bombing Libyan tribesmen; by 1914, the first dogfights occurred; and by 1918, German and British bombers were attacking each other's cities. By the end of the First World War, the newly designated Royal Air Force alone had 22,000 aircraft.

It also says something about the progression of aerial warfare that in "Bloody April" 1917, when elite German fighter pilots like Manfred "Red Baron" Von Richtofen tore through British fighters, the British lost 275 aircraft. A quarter-century later, in July and August 1943, the Luftwaffe lost a total of 3,200 aircraft…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

Love how accurate these are.

'The Royal Navy scraped together the thinnest layer of air cover, in the form of twenty or so Sea Harrier jump jets on two aging aircraft carriers that were just months away from being scrapped when Argentina invaded the Falklands.'

Plus a few other Harriers – total force was about40.

'Argentine Mirages and Daggers could have but didn't engage the Sea Harriers in high-altitude dogfights, leaving the Skyhawks free to come in low to pummel the British fleet and its vulnerable troop transports and merchant ships. '

High altitude dogfights assumed the Harriers were willing to cooperate. They weren't.

'By mid-morning, the radar officer was reporting echoes closing fast. Lieutenant Paul Barton, flying CAP, painted six Mirages at about 35,000 feet, but the six declined to come down to fight, and the Sea Harriers would not be lured up to where the French fighter was most dangerous.

By mid-morning, the radar officer was reporting echoes closing fast. Lieutenant Paul Barton, flying CAP, painted six Mirages at about 35,000 feet, but the six declined to come down to fight, and the Sea Harriers would not be lured up to where the French fighter was most dangerous.

By mid-morning, the radar officer was reporting echoes closing fast. Lieutenant Paul Barton, flying CAP, painted six Mirages at about 35,000 feet, but the six declined to come down to fight, and the Sea Harriers would not be lured up to where the French fighter was most dangerous.

As link points out, the Harriers stayed low…

Then, after Belgrano was sunk and the British started sending Vulcans to bomb the airfield at Port Stanley… carrier launched strikes difficult because Argentina could easily lose it's carrier, likewise future Vulcan attacks may have been on Buenos Aires – so the Argentine mainland needed fighter protection!

Add to that the use of advanced US Sidewinders plus most Argentine aircraft were virtually obsolete, it was hardly the one sided struggle the author of the article seems to have expected.

Marrianas Turkey Shoot, Bekka Valley for strictly Air to Air.

Strange list! Mine would read [1] German attacks on London during WW1 [because of their oddly-inverted impact on strategies thinking on both sides], [2] Battle of France 1940, [3] Battle of Britain, [4] Midway, [5] Battle of Japan 1942-45.

I wonder what are the greatest air battles in just plain history then?

Yeah, those civilian air battles really shake up the top five….

No mention of Malta one of the few really strategic exclusively Air to Air battles.

Fatman

Schweinfurt-Regensburg, the day and night bombing campaigns against Berlin, amongst some of the others mentioned above.

The Israelis had some really good days against the Egyptians and Syrians, back in the day.

As Fatman said; where's Malta?

As for the Falklands article;

'Pointless war'? From the Argentine perspective, certainly, but ask the 2,000 Falklanders if it was pointless.

He says '1970s-era SAMs' as if it were a bad thing… This was 1982, only two years after the 70s!

He also fails to realise that Argentine Mirage IIIs (primarily air defence fighters) were not going to be engaging in high-altitude dogfights with anyone, as they didn't have sufficient fuel to fly to the Falklands and engage in dogfights. They were mainly relegated to strike missions, while the Daggers (primarily ground attack aircraft), with their better range, took over the air defence role to which they were not ideally suited.

Would have thought the East Front could be in there, simply for scale of the forces involved, or the western allies getting control of the skies over 1941-44 before D-Day.

Well, to be fair to the Argentines, they did perform a few sorties looking to mix it up with the SHARs, and even dropped tanks on at least one occasion (one SHAR pilot thought they'd fired AAMs at him).

That was early on, with a pair of Mirage IIIs up front, and supposedly another pair (IIRC) a few minutes behind.

This scenario is certainly a good one for a game, in my opinion.

Lots of Argentine attacks vs. the landings in San Carlos, so another good scenario generator for ship and land-based air defenses vs. the attack jets. SHAR CAPs make it doubly interesting, but they need to stay outside of the SAM zones of the vessels, and land-based launchers.

Late in war, some Mirage Vs were also equipped with AAMs, but they never mixed it with the SHARs.

Weeellll, it all depends on how we define 'greatest' of course. Like the discussions about what the best fighter of WW2 was (no please, not here).

Now if 'great' includes any or all of heroics, steepness of learning curve, diversity, huge numbers and sheer violence, I'll pick the last month or so of the Nomonhan conflict: the 3 biggest furballs ever, with hundreds of fighters engaged over an area smaller than London.

It's were Zhukov tried the tactics that made him a success later (well, and there) btw. And some say it was the reason the Japanese bet on their navy and the run to the south instead of taking on the USSR.

Any one of the bloodier days of the the Battle of Kursk would be a good fourth on the list. And some of the engagements of the Iran-Iraq War were surprising in their outcome and losses, so one of those would be my #5.

So:
1- Nomonhan
2- Nomonhan
3- Nomonhan
4- Kursk
5- Basra

Cheers.