"Guns at Gettysburg: Stones River AAR" Topic

Last weekend saw some hardened (and not so hardened) ACW gamers meet up at the Wargames Holiday Centre to refight the Battle of Stones River, and trying out the latest version of Guns at Gettysburg rules.

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A highly enjoyable and tense game, where every order change was vital and timing mattered! The game end result was similar to the actual battle, with exhausted Confederate brigades simply unable to advance any further against Union guns and fresh infantry reserves.

Many thanks to Mark Freeth for hosting the weekend.

Check the thread below for the full AAR:
link

DB

Nice set up. What size was the table you used? And did you also use the other table that can be seen in the first picture?

Matthew

M,

We used all three tables at the WHC.

The main two are, (I think) 24 feet x 6 feet with the final table 24ft x 3ft.

Allowed real sweeping advances and some concerns over flanks!

DB

That looks great. Our group are waiting to dive in to GaG next year once we've got our heads around 'Die Kreigkunst'.

Kev

Wow. What a spectacle. Any idea how many figures are on the board?

What scale are the figures?

Don

It was all 28mm figures.

79th PA,

Somewhere between 3500 – 4000 figures.

DB

OK DB, someone has to ask.

What are the revisions?

quite intrigued by this rule set ….never had a bad game of Napoleonic's using general de brigade

How many players did you need to do this with Guns of Gettysburg? We use a very simple home brew set for games on this sort of scale but it would be nice to have an alternative.

UFB,

We had 12 players across the weekend.

We could have gone down to a lot less, but with these big games its as much about a wargames social gathering as the play itself, so the more the merrier!

DB

Trajanus,

A very quick overview for you:

1) New command & control. Command is merged into an event table, thus your command roll presents the C in C with certain choices/effects. (You'll get a mixture good luck, bad luck, successful order changes, brigades falling into disorder, recovering brigades from disorder and other command choices that effect a brigade's deployment and capability.) The C in C, dependent upon ability, can also modify his command roll, but its limited and thus the command/tactical choices are important.

2) Charges heavily revised and streamlined, unlike GdeB, melees will be few and far between, the charge itself will generally decide the outcome. The charge mechanism also encourages the correct unit and brigade formation. You probably won't see too many massed column charges! (Nor will you see extended line!)

3) Revised movement, units are quicker into the action. E.G. Instead of the standard wargames reduced speed in rough or wooded terrain, units rely on a Formation Test to keep their order as opposed to slowing up and plodding through. This works better for the ACW, esp. with the preponderance of such terrain in some battles.

3) Quicker firing mechanisms no longer based on the exact number of figures in a unit. Thus akin to GdeB your fire is based on your formation. Nonetheless a good representation of different weapon types and their effects remains.

4) The need to take morale tests reduced to a minimum in order to speed up play. The ubiquitous Formation Test assists here, along with pushing the need for some tests actually into the Brigade Morale Test result, so you achieve the same type of result, but without having to test morale for numerous individual units.

5) Gone to Ground stills plays its part, (I can't think off too many other rules sets where units hitting the dirt is represented, yet its an intrinsic result of ACWs increased firepower.)

6) Revised Brigade Morale to account for your individual unit's status as opposed to unit morale tests.

All in all a slicker, quicker game that maintains its tactical period "feel", akin to General de Brigade Deluxe.

DB

Looking good Dave, Looking good!

David – all sounds very promising. Is the game as a whole quick to pick up even if you are n't familiar with General de Brigade or the earlier version of Guns of Gettysburg?
Also, when are the rules likely to be available?
Also also…our infantry and cavalry are mounted on 6x2 inch bases with anything from 5-7 cavalry or 12-20 infantry – actual figures numbers are n't really significant in our game – would we need to re-base or would we bale to work around that?

UFB,

The rules mechanisms are all quick to pick up and use – after a few games there's little reference to the actual body of the rules and QRS provides most of what you need.

Like GdeB basing is largely irrelevant as long as the two armies are similarly based and you can recognize line from skirmish or column, then that's fine. I gone for a generic 4 figs to a base, but you can pretty much go with any basing configuration you like.

There's only four firing lines on the QRS, Columns/Inferior Lines, Lesser Lines, Medium Lines and Grand Lines – as long as you can tell one from the other that's all that's needed.

GaG2 will hopefully be out in 2015 – just need a publisher!

DB

What about Railroad Lines? (Sorry couldn't resist it)

possibly a suitable 'kick-starter' project?

David; you could try History Press. If the project is printer-ready and since you clearly already have a customer-base and a publicity effort in place maybe they'd give it a shot.

GaG2 will hopefully be out in 2015 – just need a publisher!

No doubt a dumb, or possibly awkward question but why not Partizan Press?

Regiments or brigades? Looks like regiments from the pictures.

RN,

Yes, the tactical unit is the regiment.

Command is centred on the brigade. So each brigade receives an order from the C in C and all brigade units conform to that order. (You can make out in the first pic the lead brigade is on Assault orders.)

Orders are changed in the Command phase, (well, hopefully changed!), this phase also covers the good luck/bad luck aspects. So a poor command roll could see a brigade thrown in to command confusion, (Faltering under the rules).

DB

Guns at Gettysburg purchased …will undoubtedly purchase Guns at Gettysburg II when it is published!

When is the new set of rules likely to be released?

yeah …what Patonius said! And I recognise first corps among the figures …what other manufacturers are represented?

I'd have to ask Mark Freeth as there were quite a few differing figure ranges in his ACW collection, but I mostly remember the rather nice Connoisseur figures!!

I'm hoping to have the new rules out this year – they are currently going through the "blind" playtesting phase.

(And agonising over whether to still include the Fired Last Turn modifier as per GaG/GdeB or leave it out!!)

DB

Many thanks …I recognised 1st corps as they make up the bulk of my collection, I had quite overlooked Connoisseur!

Will definitely be buying GaG II, what are the pro's and cons for keeping/leaving out the 'Fired Last Turn' modifier?

GoR.

I'm trying to avoid too many factors and hang overs from previous turns – this cuts out all those debates about "Did they fire last turn?" And this helps streamline game play and over-continuous reference to the written rules.

Having said that points in keeping the Fired Last Turn negative modifier are; fire discipline diminishing quickly once volleying got underway and the use of black powder that diminished visibility. The modifier also encourages players not to fire both continuously or at "unrealistic" targets, so helps encourage period tactics which of course all add to the historical/tactical "feel" of the rules.

I've played quite a few games without the modifier and no one (bar a few exceptions) has really noticed. But that's not necessarily a good thing!

As you can see good arguments both for and against – hence still undecided!!

DB

Leave it in and get people to use smoke markers!

Cotton wool/Hamster bedding, or whatever. Stick it on a base plonk it down when a unit fires.

How hard can it be?

I like the use of smoke markers …aesthetically it is appealing, and an accurate battlefield marker!

I'd vote to keep it in for the historical accuracy over any problems in record keeping?

T/goR,

Thanks for the replies.

If FLT is maintained how you do feel about a half turn recovery period (calling "Cease Fire!" if you like), after which you may fire as per normal?

This order would be impact on movement or reforming and importantly, how close the enemy was if a charge was declared. If within half a move your defending unit suffers the negative, if the chargers are over half a move away then you've had time to restore order and fire a reasonable volley? (I.E. Holding fire.)

DB

Half a turn to clear fouled muskets seems fair, would make the game even more tactical …players would have to be on the ball, halting to 'cease fire' could stall an assault or allow the enemy time to redress their lines?

I'm all for adding yet another command dilemma to players!

Might think about using some reloading figures as markers …if this makes it into the new ruleset? I do love a good diorama in place of plastic markers

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the heads up Dave, I will try to answer some of the questions asked earlier. The tables are 28' long with two 6' wide and one 3' wide. The figures are a mix of Connoisseur and 1st Corps. Numbers wise there are nearly 4,000 figures on the table.
The size of the tables means the players can reach any point to manoeuvre troops and allows a lot of this.

The whole feel of the game was exceptionally good, the rules allowing a fast paced while realistic American Civil War feel.

Thankyou Wargameshc! 4,000 Connoisseur and 1st Corps? Wow that must be an amazing sight all laid out on those great looking tables?

just wondering ….did frank cheatham of polk's corps rate as a 'drunkard' for this scenario?

Any progress with publication?

GoR,

No quite!

As this was a multi-player games we thought it was a bit much to saddle any one player as a drunkard!!

However having said that as the Confederate order rolls by Polk/Cheatham were so terrible (and required all of Braggs C in C efforts to counter their incompetence/bad luck) – that probably made up for it!

DB

UFB,

In discussions!

DB

the dice gods invariably keep us honest haha!

Any plans for future play tests on this scale?

GoR,

Possibly later in the year, though I suspect a certain Napoleonic anniversary may get in the way!

Happy to include you in any future game – contact me direct.

DB

GoR,

Possibly later in the year, though I suspect a certain Napoleonic anniversary may get in the way!

Happy to include you in any future game – plse contact me direct.

DB

Do you mean the battle they named after the train station/abba song? haha!

Would love the opportunity to take part in something similar!!! Shiloh? Perryville?

I will be in touch sir!

Any word on the arrival of 2nd edition GaG?

Patonius,

You can find the latest update here, not too long now I suspect. BTW the name has been changed to "Picketts Charge":

link

Happy new year folks!

Carnyx