"ACAV in Germany?" Topic

Were ACAV used in Germany? Maybe by the ACRs?

The Armored Cav Regiments were in Germany. At various times the 2nd, 3rd, 11th, and 14th were there.
There was not an "air cav" unit like as seen in Vietnam.

Are you referring to M113 ACAV? I don't think so.

There was a TRICAP division in W. Germany(Brigade of armor, infantry and heliborne) but the TO&E didn't work out. Good for a what-if, though.

link

check cold war section

I agree with Skippy. I believe the M113 ACAV was originally an "in country" modification for Nam although high demand from the ARVN and the deployment of the 11th ACR resulted in ACAV kits being manufactured in the US.

The threat environment was anticipated to be much higher in the NATO vs Warsaw Pact scenario in Germany so using it as a light tank as it was in Nam was not seen as a great option given the relatively light armor of the M113. Plus the added weight of the anti mine plates severely taxed the drive train and running gear.

I didn't think so….but I was looking for more uses for the M113 ACAV models. Thanks.

Hello,

I found some photos of M113 in Germany with ACAV kit fitted (at last parts of it).
In the Tankograd publication 3008: REFORGER 1986 – 1993 is a photo on page 4 (showing a M113A2 with gunshield for the commander, REFORGER 86 FTX Certain Sentinel 86), another one on page 26 (showing at last two M113A2 with the commander's gunshield of the ACAV kit fitted, REFORGER 88 FTX Certain Challenge)
One photo of such a vehicle is included in the Tankograd publication 3012: USAREUR – Fahrzeuge und Einheiten der U.S. Army in Europa 1992-2005

The Fahrzeug Profile 47: Caravan Guard 89 includes three pictures of M113A2 with two MG shields fitted (for the commander and one at the "passenger" compartment on page 14 and one photo of a M106A2 Mortar Carrier with the gunshield for the commander.

This may be of help?

Kind regards,
Benjamin

Spot on MCV 80! Thank you!

That vehicle in the bottom picture is not an M113 ACAV. it is an M113A3 with a gun shield in front of the 50 cal and another gun shield on the side similar to an ACAV configuration. But, the ACAV had a circular open topped turret around the TC hatch in addition to the shield. Interesting that the trooper in the back is using an M16 instead of an M60 through the gun shield.

I am happy that my comment seems to be of help.

@ScoutJock:
You are right that some parts (the side shields for the commander's hatch) of the ACAV kit are missing. To my understanding the ACAV kit consists of several parts, including a three piece protection kit for the commander/gunner and the gun shields at the rear. I read in your earlier post about the mine-protection kit which I have not been aware of. However I fear that in some cases it could be difficult to see from a photo if this is fitted.
As I wrote earlier the vehicles of the USAREUR of which I have photos in several books are often equipped with only parts of the ACAV kit.

If you are interested I can ask a friend who has an huge archive if he has some more photos.

At last I would say that using ACAV kit equipped M113 for Germany based sceanrios is to some extent realistic.

Cheers,
Benjamin

Hi all,

I was in E Trp 2nd ACR from 83-86 and I seem to recall that the engineer(Blue Babe?)Bn had gun shields and maybe the side armour also on thier M113's. We had dragons mounted next to the M2 so no room for the ACAV kit.

Jim

Hmmm, Dragons mounted next to the M2?

That is interesting.

In another historical posting I just read this week, they mentioned having to swap out the M2 to use the Dragon (though perhaps that is what you meant, and just the mount for it is in place, alongside the M2 mount).

Supposedly, firing from the vehicle mount made the Dragon a little more stable, if the report is accurate.

Mako

The M2 was in its usual place and the dragon was slightly to the rear and on the right side of the coupla. Its been awhile but I think we just mounted the sight/tracker and leaned over aimed and fired. I don't think it would have been very good against moving targets because the tracking range would have been very limited with the missile tube extending behind the tc hatch and the M2 being front left. I have a bad picture of my track but can't seem to get it to post on TMP.

Jim

Hi again,

on the sample page from Tankograd's paperback on the REFORGER 1979 – 1985 you can see a photo of a M113 with the Dragon mount. It is from REFORGER 85, FTX Central Guardian.

Cheers,
Benjamin