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"question german army equipment on entry nato ?" Topic


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Comments or corrections?

wardog30 Nov 2014 2:10 p.m. PST

when west Germany rearmed after ww2 what equipment did she start out with initially
tanks, artillery,etc

Personal logo Doms Decals Sponsoring Member of TMP30 Nov 2014 2:28 p.m. PST

Pretty much all US kit on formation of the Bundeswehr in 1955. Panzers were M47s and M48s until 1965, when the Leopard I started arriving.

skippy000130 Nov 2014 2:49 p.m. PST

They used M3 smg's until the Uzi and the MP5 came out. Check when the CETME battle rifle came out-they used that as soon as it was available.

Mako1130 Nov 2014 2:51 p.m. PST

Yea, a lot of older US kit, including the M-26 and M-41 initially, IIRC. Though, they quickly upgraded to the M-47 and M-48.

I believe the M-41 remained in service as a light tank, up until about the Leopard's introduction.

M-113s too.

Same for mobile artillery, using American kit too.

In the very early days, they wore camo uniforms very similar, if not identical to WWII German ones. Apparently, that changed shortly thereafter, to put the WWII era behind them.

gamershs30 Nov 2014 3:28 p.m. PST

When I was in service was temp attached to German unit. They were running with the M113 and I think they were gasoline fueled. We were running with diesel and had to be careful when ordering fuel while with them.

Did give me a few bolts that I had missing and helped me put on the right torque (they were supplied with torque wrenches and we were not :( )

Jemima Fawr30 Nov 2014 11:30 p.m. PST

The main tank type was the M47 Patton, though disappeared in the 1960s, following the introduction of M48A2 and Leopard 1.

M41 Walker Bulldog served in the heavy recce role, though disappeared during the early 1970s following the introduction of Leopard 1.

M42 Duster served in the AA role until replaced by Flakpanzer Gepard in the 1970s.

The main APC was the Schuetzenpanzer-Lang (Hotchkiss HS-30), which came in 20mm-armed APC and 120mm mortar variants, as well as the SS-11-armed Raketenjagdpanzer 1. This verhicle was generally despised for its mechanical unreliability and the poor 20mm cannon (which I think was based on the WW2 German 20mm?). These disappeared during the 1970s, following the introduction of Marder and various M113G variants. Raketenjagdpanzer 1 were partially replaced by Raketenjagdpanzer 2 and finally by Jaguar 1.

Recce units were mainly equipped with the Schuetzenpanzer-Kurz. The main variant was the 20mm-armed recce panzer, which had the same armament as the Schuetzenpanzer-Lang and could also carry four dismounts. Other variants included an 81mm mortar carrier, a cargo carrier, an ambulance and a command/OP variant. There was also a ground-surveillance radar variant based on the 81mm mortar carrier. These stayed in service until the early 1980s, when they were replaced by Luchs and Fuchs.

Kanonenjagdpanzer 4-5 appeared in the 1960s, along with the Raketenjagdpanzer 2, which was based on the same chassis and replaced most of the Raketenjagdpanzer 1s. A lot of Kanonenjagdpanzer chassis were converted during the 1970s into HOT-armed Jaguar 1, which then replaced the remaining Raketenjagdpanzer 1. The Raketenjagdpanzer 1s were then converted during the late 1970s/ealy 1980s into TOW-armed Jaguar 2.

I can't remember what SP artillery the West Germans had prior to M109… M108 perhaps?

Martin Rapier01 Dec 2014 12:17 a.m. PST

For a while the BW used FALs (G1) until they switched to the G3. The early uniforms were essentially Heer splinter with M1 helmets.

MCV 8001 Dec 2014 12:30 p.m. PST

Some folks already posted a lot we had back in the early days of the Bundeswehr.
I want to throw in some more.
The (very) early Bundeswehr also had M1911, Walther P38 later P1, M1A1 SMG, MP1 (Beretta MP 38/49), M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, Lee-Enfield No.4 MkI, BAR 1918 A2, M1919 A6 MG, M20 Bazooka. This list still does not inclued all weapons of this category. The book "Handwaffen und Panzerabwehrhandwaffen der Bundeswehr – Geschichte/Taktik/Technik" by Jan-Phillip Weisswange gives an good overview.

The AFV listing above is quite good. I can add some Artillery here. The Germans never had M108 in service but started with M-7B2 Priest, M-44, M-52 and M-55 SPH.
Some M-16 Antiaircraft Halftracks were also used. Among the rare vehicles were some Universal Carriers and the M-39 Prime Mover saw service as an early APC prior to the HS-30.

gamershs is partly right as the early M113 were fitted with Gasolin engines which was rather soon replaced by a Diesel engine.

Kind regards,
Benjamin

MCV 8005 Dec 2014 7:25 a.m. PST

Just want to add that we had no M-26 Pershing in the early Bundeswehr.

Cheers,
Benjamin

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