"Linothorax and Republican Rome" Topic
14 Posts
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Das Sheep | 30 Nov 2014 8:40 a.m. PST |
Hey folks, So I know that early Roman's fought as Hoplites for a long time, and some of the tribes in the north for longer than Rome, but once the Roman's gave up the Hoplite style of fighting, did they also give up the armor? I understand that the bronze bell breastplate was the armor of choice for those who could afford it until they started using mail, and even after for officers and the like, but did they also use Linothorax's? There are some images that look a lot like Romans, usually officers, in Linothorax and it was apparently a very popular armor in Greece up until the Romans came. I ask since we don't tend to see many Roman mini's ever wearing it, and I was thinking of including some from the Victrix Greek pack's in some of my Italian Ally legions, but thought I might ask here to see if there was a good reason not to do it. |
John the OFM | 30 Nov 2014 9:28 a.m. PST |
The plural of a noun does not take the apostrophe before the s. |
williamb | 30 Nov 2014 9:30 a.m. PST |
The Romans continued to use the same type of armor of metal plates, disks and mail. See this page for images of Italian armor link and this thread for Roman armor TMP link |
kallman | 30 Nov 2014 9:58 a.m. PST |
This falls in one of those areas where we do not completely know for sure. However, archaeological evidence and depictions upon bas reliefs tend to show early Romans wearing the lorica hamata (chain mail) or the bronze pectorial plate for the chest. Also the Romans tended to only wear one leg greave on the right leg as the scutum (shield) was suppose to protect the left leg. The Romans were most practical in this respect and it saved on costs of arming the legions. I think you would be safe including some Victrix Greeks as officers in your force or better yet do a head swap from the new Punic War range using a Roman head on a Greek Hoplite body and give it an arm with a Gladius or Pila. The Angus McBride illustration below does depict a Tribune wearing what appears to be a linothorax with a bronze chest plate and back.
And this illustrations clearly shows a hoplite-like armored Roman from the Jugurthine War.
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Zargon | 30 Nov 2014 10:01 a.m. PST |
The John is in class. Watch out we might not get any good-lad gold star's :) |
Mollinary | 30 Nov 2014 12:10 p.m. PST |
Zargon, You put that apostrophe in deliberately to provoke him. …. Shame on you! Mollinary. 😀 |
Ivan DBA | 30 Nov 2014 12:32 p.m. PST |
I agree with John the OFM. |
GurKhan | 30 Nov 2014 1:44 p.m. PST |
Certainly there is little evidence for Roman citizen troops ever wearing linen armour even when they did fight with the hoplite shield – though at link in the "Horatius at the Bridge" scene, the hoplite in blue is based on a Roman terracotta fragment, from the early 5th century – and certainly not afterwards. As for allies, there is good evidence that many Etruscans favoured linen armour at least until the 4th century, and possibly later on – see link for example. There is also a bronze from Praeneste (a Latin city) showing an infantryman in the type of cuirass covered in small rectangles which is often identified as Etruscan lamellar armour, but which is shown in Etruscan paintings as white, suggesting a linen or leather outer layer. Silius Italicus' poem about the Hannibalic war, Punica – which I think is worthless as a historical source, but which some people put some stock in – mentions the Romans' Faliscan allies in linen armour, and also an individual called Tadius in a "cuirass with many layers of linen". So yes, you could probably get away with some allies in linen cuirasses if you really wanted to; best not Roman citizen troops, though. |
Sobieski | 30 Nov 2014 2:11 p.m. PST |
Respect for John. Keep it up. |
Das Sheep | 30 Nov 2014 4:04 p.m. PST |
Thanks everyone for all the links and information. Folk's on this site know so much it's amazing sometime's. Those link's you provided were great GurKhan, I think I might do my Etruscan's principe's with a mix of Linothorax and the supplied Allied Italian armored Bod's. kallman, Thank you for your input too! I should probably get in the practice of buying book's on the subject I am about to paint, I guess if I can afford $400 USD or more in mini's I can spend $50 USD on some book's. Cheer's everyone! |
Henry Martini | 30 Nov 2014 8:00 p.m. PST |
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Crazyivanov | 01 Dec 2014 12:26 p.m. PST |
Depending on how early the period, Roman infantry post hoplite days may not have been armoured at all. The soldiers had to buy their own kit, scutum, pila/spear, dagger, sword, helmet, at least one greave, then body armour, all piles up rather quickly. The Hastati especially would tend toward cheaper arms, being younger and less established in the world. |
david19103 | 01 Dec 2014 12:28 p.m. PST |
Looks like the joke went over his head haha |
Mars Ultor | 01 Dec 2014 2:45 p.m. PST |
If you do linothorax for Romans you're going out on a limb, but no one can prove they never had it. I you were doing Roman hoplite or Camillan Roman I'd say it'd be okay to have some, maybe even half might be fun. Rome had old and sustained contact with the Greeks – some of the oldest temples in Forum Boarium (where traders came to the Rome via the Tiber River/ Mediterranean) were the Temple of Hercules Victor and the Ara Maxima dedicated to Hercules. And Greek artifacts are found from the 7th century (if I remember correctly, but it was VERY early on). There's a group of scholars that thinks that Rome was more Hellenized than usually given credit for earlier on, and -IMO – that makes more sense given the archaeology than the Romans being spoonfed everything by the Etruscans; by "Servian" times [I mean 600BC] Rome was as big as the largest cities in Etruria. But by Punic Wars though I wouldn't do linothorax. The evidence mounts up for armor types and it seems to be bronze, none, or chain (which, I've read, is more prevalent in later 2nd to 3rd war). And one might use that evidence to argue that there was no earlier tradition of linothorax. |
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